One possible future?

Setting: Washington DC
Year: 2035

A man is standing over a small glass terrarium, watching some insects scuttle about. Standing about 10 feet away is a young woman.

Man: I just wish mankind could be more like these creatures here.

Woman: What, cockroaches?

Man: Well, not cockroaches necessarily, I mean insects in general. Insects are so much more socially evolved than we are. Look at the ant, the termite. Each exists solely for the benefit of the collective without giving a thought to their own self-interests.

Woman: Dad, they’re bugs. They can’t think.

Man: Then someone must do the thinking for them. That’s why people like us exist. Those of us trained in social thinking must be the ones to organize society properly.

Woman: Yeah, Dad, whatever. Anyway, I’m flying to Texas tomorrow for the wedding I told you about earlier.

Man: You absolutely are not! I forbid you to go to that dreadful place!

Woman: I’m 26 years old, you can’t forbid me to do anything. I’m leaving first thing in the morning.

Man: As president, I absolutely CAN forbid it! I’ll revoke your passport so you can’t leave. Or else revoke it after you get there so you can’t come back.

Woman: Given what a shithole this country has become, that might not be such a bad idea.

Man: Don’t you speak to me like that! The only problem in this country is lack of patriotism. People won’t put their country before themselves.

Woman: You mean, they won’t put your government before themselves.

Man: Country, government, they’re the same thing.

Woman: Not in Texas.

Man (losing temper): Then, goddammit, just fucking MOVE there, then! See if I care! See how you like it with no government run health care!

Woman: And a 5% sales tax, no income tax, and a 10 cent a gallon gas tax on gas that itself is a dollar a gallon. Remember dollar a gallon gas? Up here it hasn’t dropped below ten dollars a gallon in over a decade.

Man (Sternly): That’s because we have bigger priorities, like fighting climate change.

Woman: The climate hasn’t changed in decades.

Man: See? That proves our policies are working.

Woman: Working at making the economy a wreck. What was last month’s unemployment figure?

Man: About 8%.

Woman: No, I mean the REAL unemployment figure.

Man (turns red): That’s what the Ministry of Labor reports.

Woman: Yeah, the “Official” report that goes out to the press. The real figure (and I have my sources, too) is more like 23%. At this rate, it’s just a question of who will crash first, this country or Europe.

Man (looks anguished): Please don’t mention Europe!

Woman: Okay, okay. And believe me, I won’t be flying THERE any time soon! It’s not as if I’m going to wear a damned burqa just to walk down the street.

Man: I can’t believe it, but Progressivism has failed there. In Europe, the very birthplace of Progressivism! The home of Marx and Engels, after all, who showed us how to build a perfect society, a society devoted to fairness above all else!

Woman: Fairness sucks. It’s boring. Maybe it works for those damn insects you admire so much, but sure not for anyone who has something on the ball.

Man: You border on blasphemy, young lady!

Woman: I thought you didn’t believe in religion.

Man: I meant it as a figure of speech.

Woman: Whatever. And I’m taking your advice. Not only am I going to Texas for the wedding, but I probably won’t be coming back. Hell, I’ll be wanting to get married myself pretty soon, and at least down there they’ve got plenty of REAL men!

Man: There’s plenty of men here.

Woman: I said MEN, Daddy, not the spineless creatures that exist in this town. Most of them are bureaucrats and most of the rest are either politicians or lobbyists.

Man (irritated): These are some of the smartest men in the country! And if that’s not good enough, I could get you a high placed job at Harvard, where you could be among the intellectual elite.

Woman: Meaning a bunch of high IQ dorks and dweebs. No thanks. That’s why I dropped out of there after just one year.

Man: There’s nothing more important than an intellectual. Who else is to lead in creating our new society? Who else is fit to rule?

Woman: Maybe I’m more interested in someone who doesn’t WANT to rule. Or be ruled, for that matter.

Man: People HAVE to be ruled, for the sake of the Greater Social Good. If people stopped thinking about their own selfish lives and put the needs of Society first, this would be a much better planet for all of us.

Woman (rolling eyes): People aren’t insects, Dad, they aren’t ants. And they’re not farm animals, either, to be herded about at will in conformance to some idiot’s idea of a social theory.

Man: And I suppose you are going to tell me that what men really want is to be free? Sorry, but those of us who are enlightened know better. Freedom is dangerous. Freedom is unpredictable. It leads to trouble, to social inequality because someone always wants to be better than someone else, to have more money, more possessions, etc. Freedom leads to competition and thus social instability. A truly progressive society would find a way to eliminate all these things. Replace freedom with security. Have the government provide the people with all their needs, food, housing, health care and retirement, and they will be content and forget about this “Freedom” foolishness.

Woman: Well, the people in Texas feel differently, and Texas is where I’m heading. Your “Perfect” society has sucked all the risk out of life, and with it all the fun and excitement. Maybe some people want to have all their needs met and live like dairy cows with their heads in a feed trough, but the people I want to live with don’t. Good luck with your little social experiment, but I’m leaving and don’t expect to be coming back soon, if ever.

Woman turns around and heads out the door. Man goes back to observing his insects.

81 Comments

  1. Unfortunately, assortative selection (in the social affiliation/ congenial aims sense) cannot be and never has been tolerated by the kind of people we describe as leftists. No matter whether it is geographical or merely a social sorting within the same constitutional polity, they cannot tolerate systems of voluntary association which might demand of them some evidence of virtue or character before they are allowed to draw on the stored capital of others’ lives in a strictly limited way.

    And, as we now find through the “magic” of the Internet and our ability to communicate unmediated with thousands of people with whom one could in the past never directly exchange views, the people who self-describe as leftist, have, despite our infinite patience and their being given years to try, proven themselves INCAPABLE of justifying their appropriative activities according to any standard of right reason; as opposed to appeals to or threats based on, a sub-rationally impelled instrumental calculation, which is on their very own theory of existence ultimately pointless anyway.

    That it why it always ends up, finally, in violence with their fundamentally nihilistic kind. They know no limits, and could probably not survive as a sub-type of humanity, if they did in fact take notice of, and try to abide by limits and laws. Too weak to dig, too proud to beg, and entirely lacking either in character or a personal attractiveness appealing to any persons other than similar moral miserables who seek like company, it’s the only strategy open to them.

    If all those who loved freedom and were capable of self-governance and personal responsibility went to some imaginary Texas, and in starting over created an American libertarian Switzerland, prosperous, bourgeois, and mildly but firmly Judeo-Christian, those self-cutters and hand-flappers, those tattooed and pierced liberal masochist depressives of the world, the Lena Dunhams, Sandra Fluckes, and Perry Hoods of the world would soon enough be standing at the border screaming to get in, so they could get on the social welfare roles, and begin to shit up the social and psychic and economic lives of those who showed them compassion in the first place.

    As Perry Hood said, access to those like you is critical to his family’s welfare. You have to pay more, so his daughter can pay less.

  2. Another far more likely future

    Setting: The Internet
    Year: 2035

    Hey, Eric, published your novel YET? Sold it to Hollywood for a million bucks YET?

  3. Year: 2035
    Location: Hell

    Pho has just arrived. His last act on Earth had been to type something snide on Dana’s site just before collapsing at his computer. Now a spirit guide has been assigned to show him around.

    “First thing we do is show you Heaven. I know it’s kind of cruel, but this is Hell after all. Anyway, here it is.”

    Pho looked around. It was wonderful beyond compare. Everyone was happy. Then he saw someone getting into a Ferrari.

    “Who is that?” he asked.

    “That’s that fellow Eric you used to sneer at. He’s driving over to pick up his friend PJ O’Rourke, then the two of them are going to have lunch with Sarah Palin at Hoagie’s restaurant.”

    “Oh” Said Pho.

    “So, what does he do here?”

    “He’s a Top Gun instructor. Probably the best fighter pilot in the Galaxy. Dana’s a great film director. Hoagie’s the best chef we’ve ever had. You see, in Heaven, everyone’s dreams come true.”

    “Do I get to go here?” said Pho

    “Sorry. You never believed in this place anyway. Dismissed it as fairy tales” said the spirit. “Besides, you were such a practical person, so grounded in reality. Heaven, to you, was just fantasy, so for you it will never be anything more than that.”

    “Uh” said Pho.

    “Besides, we have a basic rule up here. Only happy people get to go to Heaven. Miserable people are not allowed. They’d be as out of place as an orangutang at a fancy dress dinner. And you were miserable, and did little more than make other people miserable.”

    “I can be happy” said Pho as he tried to force his lips into a smile, but it looked more like a grimace.

    The spirit ignored this attempt at fakery, and then added “There’s an interesting thing about both Heaven and Hell. The more souls that arrive in Heaven, the better it gets. And the more souls that arrive in Hell, the worse it gets. But enough of that. Let me show you around.”

    They went into an open space where there were some people. One of them looked familiar. She was sitting in front of a computer, but something looked off. She was very visibly pregnant. Suddenly, the baby popped out of her, then another, then more still. She kept trying to get to her keyboard, but the babies kept getting in the way.

    “I know her!” said Pho.

    “That’s right. That’s Amanda Marcotte. In life she hated pregnancy and joined every “Pro-Choice” group she could find. Well, she made her “Choice”, so to speak, and wound up here. As you can see, she wants desperately to blog, but can’t. Children, she used to think, were a cramp on her lifestyle. And now she’s cursed with the thing she hates most, eternal pregnancy and endless babies stopping her from doing the thing she enjoys most.”

    Pho spotted another person who looked familiar, and pointed him out to the spirit. “That’s Peter Singer” the spirit replied.

    “Why is he here?” said Pho. “He was for animal rights.”

    “The ‘Animal Rights’ crap was just a cover for his hatred of humanity. Anyone who advocates murdering small children and then tries to pass himself off as a ‘Moral philosopher’ deserves the worst Hell can deliver. His fate is so bad even I don’t know what it is” said the spirit with a slight shudder.

    “But enough of that. Time to see your new home. The spirit opened a door to a large, open space and both of them entered. For a couple minutes nothing happened, then suddenly an exact clone of Pho popped into existence a few feet away, and immediately began nagging and criticizing, and generally making a pest of himself in the typical Pho fashion. A minute later, another Pho clone appeared and did the same thing, then another and another.

    “What is this?” said Pho.

    “You got what you wanted” replied the spirit. “An eternity with nothing but yourself for company. And, since you always fancied yourself so witty and intelligent and superior, this should be wonderful company indeed! Why, it’s your own self-made heaven!”

    “But I’m BORING!” said Pho.

    “And so you are” said the spirit. “Welcome to reality. Hope you enjoy it, because it lasts FOREVER!”

    And with that, the spirit disappeared.

  4. “First thing we do is show you Heaven. I know it’s kind of cruel, but this is Hell after all. Anyway, here it is.”

    Pho looked around. It was wonderful beyond compare. Everyone was happy. Then he saw someone getting into a Ferrari.

    “Who is that?” he asked.

    “That’s that fellow Eric you used to sneer at.

    ‘Fraid not, Eric – Matthew 25:41-46.

    It’s your book – why is it you so-called “Christians” never bother to read it?

  5. Is it “Spirit” or Spear It”?

    Well, I got the idea (sort of) from CS Lewis, who posited the idea that we each “Create” our own Heaven or Hell. In one of his books, he invents a hypothetical Hell, and the interesting thing is – people have the option of leaving any time they like, but most of them don’t want to leave. Because to do so, they have to leave behind all the things that got them there in the first place, their jealousies, quarrels, ideologies, conceits, vanities, etc.

    An interesting thing about his Hell is it’s not like the Hell of popular imagination. There’s no fire or brimstone or devils running around with pitchforks. It’s more dreary than terrifying. Indeed, it’s a lot like London in November. It rains a lot and it’s half-dark all the time. The people in Hell can’t stand each other, so every time a new soul arrives, the rest start moving further away. And so, even as the population increases, the place keeps getting lonelier and lonelier.

  6. Matthew 25:41-46

    You know, Pho (and I’m breaking my own rule just by responding to you), it’s rather bad form to cite something and then not quote what you’re citing. Also, I have always found it bizarre when left wing atheists quote from a book they claim to believe is nonsense as if that book had some authority worth mentioning. But I digress.

    Anyway, to the quote in question:

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    Look at the bold quote above. That is exactly what I’m trying to do here, to, quite literally, invite you in to the Fellowship of Christ. You are, in a sense, the stranger. Oddly enough, I care about you, but God only knows why. I guess it’s the notion that every soul is worth saving. You could have a glorious life, both here and in the next world, but you have to want to have it. That was the point of my piece above. The doors of Heaven are wide open, but you have to choose to walk through them. The other part of my piece was a warning. Keep rejecting God, and someday, when it’s most important, He may reject you. I tried to soften the message with some humor, but this is deadly serious business.

  7. Actually, I thought that Eric’s comment was better than his original article. :) There is a huge error in the original, in that he typed “man” instead of “male.” There is a difference, and while some males might support the notion of a fascism for our own good, no actual man would ever do so.

    The Phoenician thought that he was making a point by citing Mathew 25:46, but he seems to have missed the point: it is the righteous who are given eternal life, and he seems to fail that particular test.

  8. The Phoenician thought that he was making a point by citing Mathew 25:46, but he seems to have missed the point: it is the righteous who are given eternal life, and he seems to fail that particular test.

    And once again, you’ve missed the point, Dana.

    It’s not enough to loudly congratulate yourselves on being “righteous” if you spend your time spreading hate and shitting all over your fellow man.

    What exactly do you think your Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs on this blog aimed at Ms Fluke?

  9. That is exactly what I’m trying to do here, to, quite literally, invite you in to the Fellowship of Christ.

    Eric, if the price of believing in your Big Sky Fairy is that I’m supposed to consider people like you my Fellows, it just makes me gladder I’m not a believer. You’re a repulsive, lying piece of human slime.

  10. Well, let’s see. We have here:

    if you spend your time spreading hate and shitting all over your fellow man.

    Soon followed by here, from the same speaker:

    You’re a repulsive, lying piece of human slime.

    As PJ O’Rourke would put it – Words fail me.

  11. Well, let’s see. We have here:

    if you spend your time spreading hate and shitting all over your fellow man.

    Nope, Eric – this is why I tagged you as lying, remember?

    I did NOT say “if you spend your time spreading hate and shitting all over your fellow man”.

    I SAID “It’s not enough to loudly congratulate yourselves on being “righteous” if you spend your time spreading hate and shitting all over your fellow man.”

    I don’t go around continually and loudly trumpeting how righteous I am, as you so-called “Christian” wingnuts do.

    Thank you for demonstrating yet again the truth of my characterisation of you.

  12. Oh, and, of course, Eric, you’re not my “fellow”.

    Oh, so far, far from it. For which I am eternally grateful.

  13. Eric, if the price of believing in your Big Sky Fairy is that I’m supposed to consider people like you my Fellows

    Actually, YES, that is part of the price. Jesus was not too proud to hang around with the sinners, but apparently you are. One price of Christianity is stripping away of the ego, to give up certain delusions about yourself. You might have to give up your sense of superiority, and realize, per the tale of the beam vs the speck in one’s eye, that your own sins are greater than you thought and the other person’s less. Christianity can be hard that way, and many people are just too lazy to do it. It’s much easier to just worship one’s own ego instead.

    But that’s about it. I don’t suppose a thing I have said here will matter to you. I have tried to help, but you’re not interested. Jesus, of course, wanted His followers to attract converts, but even He did not expect them to be idiots about it, to continually beat on a door that refused to open. He basically told them: Go to a town and spread the Good Word. But if they won’t listen, leave and ‘Shake the dust off your sandals’ as you go.

  14. Actually, YES, that is part of the price.

    Then there’s another reason to be grateful I don’t fall into your delusion of believing in a Big Fairy then, isn’t it?

    “God” is just like Santa or the Easter Bunny.

    One price of Christianity is stripping away of the ego, to give up certain delusions about yourself.

    Tell us what Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs hurled at Sandra Fluke by members of this blog, Eric.

  15. I don’t go around continually and loudly trumpeting how righteous I am

    Actually, you do pretty much exactly that on a regular basis. You just do it in secular rather than religious terms. Nearly every post of yours boils down to saying “Look how superior I am, and look how inferior you all are in comparison to me”. It would be interesting if you could see yourself from an outside perspective, what a slave you are to your own ego, your desperate need to impress others and inflate your own self regard.

  16. Tell us what Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs hurled at Sandra Fluke by members of this blog, Eric.

    To quote PJ O’Rourke (in an article about Hunter S Thompson) – In a century full of countless unspeakable crimes, we may speak of these, and they don’t count.

  17. Then there’s another reason to be grateful I don’t fall into your delusion of believing in a Big Fairy then, isn’t it?

    What? You don’t want anything to do with Christianity because it’s too much work? Because you’re too lazy?? God offers you Eternal Life, and you’re like (imitates small, whining child) “But I don’t WANT TO!”

    You know, you could be on the verge of a breakthrough. But part of it may hurt. You might have to see yourself as you really are, and you might not like what you see.

    But don’t take my word for it. Here’s CS Lewis on the subject:

    The command Be Ye Perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ” gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly ( though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful, but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said. =

  18. Actually, you do pretty much exactly that on a regular basis.

    Cite please.

    Nearly every post of yours boils down to saying “Look how superior I am, and look how inferior you all are in comparison to me”

    No, Eric. Pointing out and proving that you lot are almost always continually wrong is not a way of making myself look good. That you think it does speaks volumes about your own pathologies – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

    What? You don’t want anything to do with Christianity because it’s too much work?

    No, Eric, I don’t want anything to do with it because:

    i, It is a lie based on a fairy tale, and I can’t even pretend to believe in fairy tales AND

    ii, the loudest self-proclaimed “Christians” act in contemptible, repulsive fashions.

    BTW, you haven’t actually answered the question – tell us what Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs hurled at Sandra Fluke by members of this blog, Eric.

    Your evasion also speaks volumes about the depth of your “Christianity”.

  19. No, Eric. Pointing out and proving that you lot are almost always continually wrong is not a way of making myself look good.

    NOW who’s lying to himself? You wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t to make yourself look good, to try to make others look inferior so you could rub their faces in it. Indeed, if you were truly “Above it all” and didn’t feel the need to gain our approval, you wouldn’t post here at all.

  20. i, It is a lie based on a fairy tale

    That’s YOUR opinion. CS Lewis, one of the greatest writers of the 20th Century, most assuredly states there IS a God.

    Gee. Whom to believe … ??

  21. The Phoenician asked:

    What exactly do you think your Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs on this blog aimed at Ms Fluke?

    Unfortunately for your position, what was said about the lovely Miss Fluke was true. She was demanding not only the “right” to sin, but for the public to pay for contraception so that she might avoid the natural consequences of her sins. As for what Jesus would have said, he would have forgiven her sin, if she had had a contrite heart, but added, “Go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11)

  22. Eric, neither the Phoenician nor anyone else can be argued into believing in the LORD. Faith comes from within, not from without, and the Phoenician will not have faith because he does not wish to have faith. For whatever reasons he had, Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus, and the persecutor of the disciples of Christ became a disciple himself, a conversion which amazed everyone. Thus, there is hope — albeit not much hope — that our Krazy Kiwi Kommenter will find his way; as God said to Abraham, “Is anything too difficult for the LORD?” (Genesis 18:14)

  23. So many of our friends on the left find the notion of belief in God to be silly, but a poignant question would be: What would this world be like if everyone believed on God, and followed the law as given by the LORD? There would be no murder, there would be no fatherless children, save those who lost their fathers to accident or disease, there would be no adultery and no divorce, and everyone who could work, would work, so that we might easily care for those few who genuinely cannot work. As a practical matter, the Bible is the greatest instruction book on how society should be, on how people should behave, regardless of whether the reader believes in God.

    Yet the left mock the Bible, and tell us just how much better life would be if we just followed their ideas. And, having done so, we have rampant promiscuity, millions of children born without fathers, crime spreading throughout our cities and our culture, people incapacitating themselves with drugs, people stealing from others through false claims for welfare, and large segments of our population actively avoiding education. Everything they have agitated for has been wrong, everything they have urged on us has been counterproductive, everything they have told us is good has turned out to be evil.

  24. Eric, neither the Phoenician nor anyone else can be argued into believing in the LORD. Faith comes from within, not from without, and the Phoenician will not have faith because he does not wish to have faith.

    Oh, you’re probably right. Still, I haven’t really talked about faith much at all, but rather focused on the more specific Promise of Eternal Life. You would think that would entice anyone, even an atheist, but apparently not.

    What interests me is the almost total lack of curiousity atheists have whenever I bring up the subject. They never ask “Why do you believe in Eternal Life?”, in which case I would have answered “Because Jesus said so”, at which point they might ask “And why do you believe Jesus?” and I would answer “Because everything else about Him seems truthful”. To me, faith builds upon faith. If one part of it seems true, then other parts start to as well.

    As for Pho, well, all a fellow can do is try. I make no bones about it, I do not particularly like him. He is annoying, a pest, and seems to love being relentlessly negative just for the sake of it. Quite honestly, I’m about to give up on him. If a great quote from a great author leaves him unmoved, what words of mine will do any good? I’m like Morpheus – I’ve offered him the Red Pill and the Blue Pill, and he chose the Blue Pill. He wants to stay plugged into the Matrix where everything is comfortable and he gets to hear only what he wants to hear.

    Again, you were right. You just can’t argue a person into something they don’t want and refuse to believe. A few months back, I had a similar experience with another atheist on an Amazon.com board. The arguments went back and forth. They got pretty intense at times, but, unlike here, they rarely got personal. Finally, after some 200 posts, I realized that, like you said, arguing into faith wasn’t working. So I just gave him a quote from part of my book. Which is here:

    “Oh Scott, have you been hearing me?” Christy asserted once again. “Are you just going to lie there staring off into space?”

    “Yeah,” he said, then wisecracked, “I’m in the middle of some ‘deep thoughts’. You know, the Meaning of Life, and all that stuff.”

    “Yeah, like what? Something more important than an offer to do a little nude swimming? How can you turn that down?” she added, with a grin.

    “Christy,” he started, not sure what to say next. What he wanted to do was to come right out and tell her he loved her, but he wasn’t sure the timing was right. But then again, sitting there on the dock with the stars and moon overhead, it was hard to think of a more romantic setting.

    “Yeah, Scott, what is it?”

    “Do you believe in God?”

    “How can you not? Look at us. Don’t you think the feelings we share come from a deeper source? It’s no accident that there is beauty and wonder in our world.”

    To his credit, he wished me well on my book, then we parted ways. My final post did not persuade him, either, but it did give him an appreciation of why many people value religion, and at least his opposition to religion dinished somewhat as a result of that exchange.

    So, yeah, there’s always hope.

  25. Pho, it’s as simple as this: “We will remember you in our prayers” whether you want us to or not. You can say thank you, or curse us like you broke your toe running into furniture in the darkness of the night.

  26. NOW who’s lying to himself? You wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t to make yourself look good,

    Pardon me, but you are again displaying your own pathologies here. You are not me, and you are not capable of speaking for me.

    BTW, you haven’t actually answered the question

    Actually, I did. You just didn’t like the answer.

    No, Eric, you did not. You evaded it with cryptic bullshit. I point out that your reply did not mention Jesus at all.

    Once again, tell us what Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs hurled at Sandra Fluke by members of this blog, Eric.

    That’s YOUR opinion.

    Yes, and it’s my opinion for the same reasons you believe there is no Ganesh, there is no Santa Claus, and there are no unicorns.

    Do you believe in Ganesh, Santa Claus or unicorns, Eric? If not, is it because you’re too lazy to believe, or because you do not wish to believe, or simply because they are unbelieveable?

    Do you start to see why I don’t believe in your Big Sky Fairy?

    CS Lewis, one of the greatest writers of the 20th Century, most assuredly states there IS a God.

    Ah, argument from authority. And you chose as an authority a man who wrote about witches and magical wardrobes.

    Oh, you’re probably right. Still, I haven’t really talked about faith much at all, but rather focused on the more specific Promise of Eternal Life. You would think that would entice anyone, even an atheist, but apparently not.

    Oh, Eric – you still don’t get it.

    If I told you that if you switched to believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you’d get the Promise of Eternal Life and a million dollars, would you switch?

    Why not? Simply worship the FSM, and you’d get everything you’d get worshiping the Christian God and a million dollars!

    Why would that not convince you that the FSM existed and that It should be worshipped, Eric?

  27. Unfortunately for your position, what was said about the lovely Miss Fluke was true.

    No, Dana, and you and I both know you are lying. I have previously shown where you deliberately and knowingly lied by pointing at Sandra Fluke’s actual testimony, so please do not pretend to be innocent.

    Proverbs 6:16-19

  28. Pho, it’s as simple as this: “We will remember you in our prayers” whether you want us to or not.

    Yes, Yorkie, you keep pretending you speak telepathically to your invisible fairy friend.

    That’s really convincing.

  29. And lastly for a bit, it’s reeeeeeeal amusing to watch the so-called “Christians” here spout off about Obama.

    Exodus 22:28

  30. By the way, just proof that Dana is lying:

    Unfortunately for your position, what was said about the lovely Miss Fluke was true.

    Let’s consider just the word “slut” thrown at Sandra Fluke by the so-called “Christians” on this blog.

    Here is her testimony.

    i, In it, she does not speak of having sex.

    ii, In it, she does not speak of taking contraception herself. She speaks on behalf of others.

    iii, More than 99% of American women aged 15–44 who have ever had sexual intercourse have used at least one contraceptive method. 62% of all American women of reproductive age are currently using a contraceptive method.

    iv, And she clearly points out that she and these women pay for their insurance themselves, with no subsidy.

    v, A bit of research shows that at the time she gave her testimony, she had been dating her fiance for eight years, which would have been from age 23 to 31. I would suspect that this is indeed abnormal for an American woman – making her more chaste than the vast majority.

    So, Dana, i think that demonstrates why you are lying, and why I am calling you a liar.

    How exactly do you reconcile bearing false witness against Ms Fluke with your so-called “Christianity”?

  31. Evil is contagious, the proof is irrefutable, and it’s been allowed free reign here for years. Dana, why do you allow it to corrupt your blog? It’s malignant effects are obvious. You can’t be unaware that many potential new commenters simply go elsewhere instead of voluntarily associating themselves with the ugly low-brow filth too frequently displayed here. Since we’re known by the company we keep, few individuals seek the company of diseased minds. And, some current commenters, I’m one, try to avoid threads polluted by sick insults and vicious name-calling.

    If more traffic is your goal, time has surely revealed the need for change. Continuing along in the save vein will only produce the same unsatisfactory results. It’s time for a change.

    Good fences make good neighbors, and successful gardeners pick their weeds and water their flowers. If your blog is to prosper, you must mend your fences and pick your weeds. All that is required for weeds to prosper is for good farmers to neglect essential tasks.

  32. Pardon me, but you are again displaying your own pathologies here. You are not me, and you are not capable of speaking for me.

    Actually, I am. Because your motives are so transparent. You post here because you are an Attention Whore. Every post of yours is you saying “Look at Me! Pay attention to ME! Look at how Smart and Superior I am, and what losers you all are by comparison!” Good God, it’s as obvious as shit on a pig’s face!

    Dana keeps asking why you post here, when you seem to hate everyone else on this Site. You’re not here to make friends, to discuss or debate issues, to persuade, or to do anything useful. You’re just here to piss people off, to, as DNW put it – shit in other people’s swimming pools.

    And the fact you never answer Dana’s question is an answer in and of itself.

  33. Ah, argument from authority. And you chose as an authority a man who wrote about witches and magical wardrobes.

    Geez, Pho, you work in a library, and you’re so dumb you can’t tell the difference between an author writing FICTION and the same author writing NON-FICTION … ?

  34. Ah, argument from authority. And you chose as an authority a man who wrote about witches and magical wardrobes

    .

    Geez, Pho, you work in a library, and you’re so dumb you can’t tell the difference between an author writing FICTION and the same author writing NON-FICTION … ?

    His world is A Night At The Museum

  35. Let’s see. Earlier I posted the following

    The command Be Ye Perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ” gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly ( though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful, but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said.

    This is one of the greatest statements ever made about the Christian religion from one of its greatest defenders. But our librarian apparently isn’t interested in that. Instead, he’d rather obsess over the following:

    Once again, tell us what Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs hurled at Sandra Fluke by members of this blog, Eric.

    Apparently the antics of some two-bit floozy who just used up her proverbial 15 seconds of fame are of more importance to you than what is perhaps the Greatest Question in the Universe, namely, what is God’s plan for us after we die?

    What was that saying about those who strain at gnats and swallow camels?

  36. His world is A Night At The Museum

    His “world” is a Nightmare on Elm Street. Imagine being him? A dumbass putz living in a country that’s a pimple on the ass end of the world.

  37. Eric, the Dumbass does obsess over the SLUT Fluker, almost as much as it does over you, York and I. It’s an obsessive little troll isn’t it? Apparently the things that matter most to it are 1. Whores and 2. communism inflicted on others. Sad thing is it’s got too many followers here like Perry and the rest of the commie left (including our president).

  38. Your attention gives it life, sustains it, pleases it, bestows on it a reason to exist. It’s a parasite incapable of sustaining an independent existence. You didn’t create it, but your acknowledgment nourishes it. So, who’s the dumbass?

  39. Gentlemen,

    You can never win an argument against someone who evades argument.

    Instead of syllogisms, Phoenician in a Time of Romans presents you “links” to material from which you are apparently supposed to draw some preordained conclusion.

    If upon inspection of the linked material, you either discover that the link does not argue what the the Phoenician would like you to think it does, or you refute the assertions you find in the linked material, then instead of a line of reasoning, you are delivered another link, followed by some bile spitting.

    And now what? He is …

    1. quoting the Gospels to you as someone who is not only a malevolent atheist, but as someone who has asserted that even the person of Jesus Christ the man, is an historical fiction. It’s one thing to charge a disciple with being faithless to his master, it’s another and quite ludicrous thing altogether to make the same charge while denying the validity of the teachings per se, and the existence of the master both.

    2. Getting all emotionally worked up over your derogatory references to Sandra Flucke when,
    a, according to him no human has any natural rights or intrinsic claim to respect or consideration in the first place, and
    b, all is meaningless in the end anyway, and human life itself nothing more than a kind of phase change in a field of chaos.

    One wonders what intrinsic right then, Sandra Flucke, as an entity that wishes to appropriate the life energies of others for her benefit by insinuating itself into an institution and subverting the aims of its founders, has to intraspecific respect? Certainly if all human life is meaningless, and all humans lack any intrinsically founded rights which objectively mandate respect for their existence on the part of others, then Sandra Flucke as a woman, and at least taxonomically a member of humankind, lacks these attributes in the same way.

    Yet the Phoenician in a Time of Romans persists in responding emotionally, and you persist in saying that you will pray for it.

    Imagine as an intellectual exercise, that you are standing on a sidewalk at an intersection. Sandra Fluke, parasitical annoyance and fascist that she is, stands next to you, and is about to step into the crossing lane and into oncoming traffic. If she does, you can see that she will be struck by a truck, and dragged, painfully mangled, and ultimately killed.

    If you do nothing however, you will be marginally better off in life, if ever so slightly and temporarily, as a result.

    If you were to do nothing, what possible moral argument consistent with his own metaphysical views, could the Phoenician level against your decision?

  40. Note on Fluke.

    Correction: I notice that I used what has sometimes appeared as a derisive and contemptuously mocking misspelling of la Fluke’s name at least twice above.

    This was inadvertent, and caused by an ad hoc working out of some vague memory I had of the queerness of her spelt name versus the correct pronunciation. By the time I settled in my mind how it was really spelled, I forgot to go back and correct the earlier spellings.

    It’s apparently “Fluke” in spelling as I had it the last time, and “f-look” in pronunciation; not “Fluhk” or “flewk” in pronunciation and “Flucke” in spelling.

    I think that holding her in contempt as a kind of insidious and fascistic moral vermin, as I do hold her to be, doesn’t require that I also mock the name as well.

  41. Aah! The Prez?

    Quit trashing President Obama’s accomplishments. He has done more than any other President before him.

    He has an impressive list of accomplishments:

    First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.
    First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.
    First President to preside over a cut to the credit-rating of the United States
    First President to violate the War Powers Act. .
    First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico .
    First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party.
    First President to spend a trillion dollars on ‘shovel-ready’ jobs when there was no such thing as ‘shovel-ready’ jobs.
    First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.
    First President to by-pass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.
    First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S. , including those with criminal convictions.
    First President to demand a company hand-over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.
    First President to tell a CEO of a major corporation (Chrysler) to resign.
    First President to terminate America ‘s ability to put a man in space.
    First President to cancel the National Day of Prayer and to say that America is no longer a Christian nation.
    First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.
    First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.
    First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly spoke-out on the reasons for their rate increases.
    First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which state it is allowed to locate a factory.
    First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN).
    First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.
    First President to actively try to bankrupt an American industry (coal).
    First President to fire an inspector general of Ameri-Corps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.
    First President to appoint 45 czars to replace elected officials in his office.
    First President to surround himself with radical left wing anarchists.
    First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office, 102 to date.
    First President to hide his medical, educational and travel records.
    First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.
    First President to go on multiple global “apology tours” and concurrent “insult our friends tours.”
    First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends paid for by the taxpayer.
    First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife.
    First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000 a year at taxpayer expense.
    First President to repeat the Holy Quran & tell us the early morning call of the Azan (Islamic call to worship) is the most beautiful sound on earth.
    First President to tell the military men and women that they should pay for their own private insurance because they “volunteered to go to war and knew the consequences”.
    Then he was the First President to tell the members of the military that THEY were UNPATRIOTIC for balking at the last suggestion.
    First President to side with a foreign nation over one of the American 50 states (Mexico vs Arizona).

    How is this hope and change working out for you?

    Ya gotta love this guy and his dumbass supporters.

  42. Actually, I am

    No, Eric, you are not.

    You claim to be trying “to invite me in to the Fellowship of Christ”. And you are doing so by calling a young woman a “floozy”.

    So, once again, as a so-called “Christian”, tell us what Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs hurled at Sandra Fluke by members of this blog, Eric.

  43. Eric, the Dumbass does obsess over the SLUT Fluker, almost as much as it does over you, York and I. It’s an obsessive little troll isn’t it? Apparently the things that matter most to it are 1. Whores and 2. communism inflicted on others.

    So Sandra Fluke is a whore now according to Hoagie?

    I like bringing up her case for one simple reason – it displays the true ugliness in the souls of the posters here. You loudly boast of being “Christians”, but the lies and sexual slurs aimed at a blameless young woman demonstrates just who you lot REALLY are.

  44. Geez, Pho, you work in a library, and you’re so dumb you can’t tell the difference between an author writing FICTION and the same author writing NON-FICTION … ?

    Eric, any stuff Lewis wrote about God was just as much fiction as the stuff he wrote about witches.

    There’s more evidence that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.

  45. Someone characterized Sandra Fluke as “a blameless young woman,” and I have to laugh. She selected, of her own volition, a law school at a Catholic university, and then tried to use the power of government to require that school to violate Catholic doctrine. That is not something I would call “blameless,” but deliberate subversion. She holds that her private life is none of anybody else’s business, and then proceeds to make her private life everyone else’s financial responsibility. If a slut is a woman who copulates with everybody, Miss Fluke certainly tried to fornicate over Georgetown University and the entire Catholic college structure.

    The left loudly trumpets individual rights, but cannot survive without trampling on the rights of others. None of us here would have denied the right of Miss Fluke to use contraception, because that is her personal choice, but she would require other people to be directly involve with her personal choices, by requiring a Catholic college, which does not believe that artificial contraception is morally acceptable, to have to provide an insurance program which pays for something they find morally unacceptable. Command and control by the state is the path to power by the left; liberty and individual rights are anathema to them. When a liberal tells you that he is “pro-choice,” you know that he is “pro-choice” on only one topic.

  46. When a liberal tells you that he is “pro-choice,” you know that he is “pro-choice” on only one topic.

    Like Obamacare? The Second Amendment? Or are you referring to stealing other people’s money to support GM, globall warming, globall cooling, Goldman Sacks, the ACLU, NPR, and the one we all know and love…Planned Parenthood?

    Yeah, they believe in freedom of choice, as long as they are the ones choosing. They’re liars, fakes, frauds, bastards and thieves. They believe in generosity, with other people’s money. They are the lowest form of humanity (if they could be considered human).

  47. There’s more evidence that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.

    Actually, Dumbass, there’s more evidence that God exists than there is you exist. None of us has seen you. So you’re invisible. None of us has felt your love, because you seem incapable of love. None of us have felt your wrath because you’re impotent. None of us have experienced anything but words on an electronic canvass which means….nothing! Men have written and talked about God for millennium, yet few talk of you, and none in person. You are a skid mark on the undies of humanity. And for that, we thank you. Dumbass. Poke, poke.

  48. but the lies and sexual slurs aimed at a blameless young woman demonstrates just who you lot REALLY are.

    Defending a whore, slut and piece of human trash like Fluke demonstrates exactly who you are, Dumbass. When you defend an unborn child’s right to life, or a Christian’s right to display his faith in public, or a person’s right to keep the money he earned by the sweat of his brow instead of paying for YOUR operation, then you have the moral high ground. Until then you will remain the quintessential Dumbass of all time. Poke, poke.

  49. Defending a whore, slut and piece of human trash like Fluke demonstrates exactly who you are, Dumbass.

    What an excellent example of a Christian you are, Hoagie.

    We already know you are a lying sack of shit – would you care to supply any proof of your accusations against Ms Fluke?

  50. When you defend [...] a Christian’s right to display his faith in public,

    Oh, I encourage you to continue displaying your faith in public, by running around calling a blameless young woman a “whore, slut and piece of human trash”.

    Please, by all means – continue to show people what your brand of Christianity really stands for.

  51. Actually, Dumbass, there’s more evidence that God exists than there is you exist.

    Nope.

    Lying again, Hoagie.

  52. We’ve been through the details of this many times before. For those with short memories.

    Regarding then Sandra Fluke, the morally alien and subversive 30 year old activist with an agenda , which calculatedly insinuated itself into an at least nominally Catholic University, with designs to use it and “Whore of Babylon-ize” it LOL , for her and her kind’s convenience, the Phoenician characterizes her as,

    ” a blameless young woman …”

    Well folks, occasionally, just occasionally, the emotional hysteric Phoenician in a Time of Romans says something so outrageously funny that it is almost worth letting him continue to “live”.

    To refresh our memories:

    “Sandra Fluke, a third-year student at Georgetown Law and past president of the school’s Students for Reproductive Justice group. … I caught her outside the hearing room, and we spoke about what she would have told the committee.

    Fluke came to Georgetown University interested in contraceptive coverage: She researched the Jesuit college’s health plans for students before enrolling, and found that birth control was not included. “I decided I was absolutely not willing to compromise the quality of my education in exchange for my health care,” says Fluke, who has spent the past three years lobbying the administration to change its policy on the issue. The issue got the university president’s office last spring, where Georgetown declined to change its policy. …

    Fluke plans to continue working on the issue to ensure that the health reform regulations do eventually require Georgetown University to provide birth control to its students. She’s keeping an eye both on the accommodations the White House rolled out last month, as well as a separate regulation on student health plans now being reviewed by the Office of Budget and Management. That’s the regulation that will determine whether the no-copay birth control provisions also apply to student health plans.

    Fluke stayed for the first few moments of the hearing, long enough to hear a representative of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops speak, before walking out in protest with the Democratic women who sit on the committee.”

    italics added for logical clarity on the matter of her advocacy

    Cite: Washington Post “Sarah Kliff covers health policy for the Washington Post. Sarah joined the Post in August 2011 from Politico, where she authored Politico Pulse, a daily health policy tipsheet. Prior to Politico, Sarah was a staff writer at Newsweek covering national politics.”

  53. Sandra Fluck – Attention Whore … 15 seconds of fame over … back to screwing zoo chimps and the Georgetown football team … yawn, snoooze .. whatever.

  54. “Actually, Dumbass, there’s more evidence that God exists than there is you exist. ”

    I think that there is probably as much evidence that God exists (in what Ed Feser calls the classical understanding) as there is that Phoenician in a Time of Romans has a soul or that its existence has any objective significance.

    Ever wonder why Phoenician in a Time of Romans, and those petulant militantly atheistic males like him whom we have encountered here on Dana’s sites, say for example Perry Hood, Mike Ganzeveld, and Jeromy Brown among others, are so emotional? What is it about these center-of-the-herd dwelling, termite-heap men, that makes them that way? Perhaps it’s just a genetic side effect – like the soft curly hair and mewing voices of domesticated Russian foxes – of certain tame types surviving in the social interstices to breed with each other for x number of generations until they do in fact become a different kind entirely, as Perry has suggested. Short ring finger, narrow palm type males.

    That would explain why they are so desperate to stake legal claims on others, and why they truly cannot survive any other way. Not that this troubles them. Productive humanity simply becomes the environment which they “naturally” inhabit. If they can mimic its moral language and subvert the institutions created by the productive in order to divert resources to themselves, they have no qualms about doing so. They may even call it symbiosis. Till they kill the host, or it kills them, that is.

  55. DNW
    Tuesday, 5 November 2013 at 12:29
    “Actually, Dumbass, there’s more evidence that God exists than there is you exist. ”

    What if Pho is just a machine stationed in Zealand typing random insults? It it possible.

  56. What if Pho is just a machine stationed in Zealand typing random insults? It it possible.

    No. Because the machine would have more brains. And a better personality.

  57. Sandra Fluck – Attention Whore … 15 seconds of fame over … back to screwing zoo chimps and the Georgetown football team … yawn, snoooze .. whatever.

    Tell us again about how you want to bring people to your brand of “Christianity”, Eric.

    James 1:26

  58. And it’s not surprising you so deceitfully evade answering the question, “What exactly do you think your Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs on this blog aimed at Ms Fluke?”, Eric.

    After all, the answer is clear…

    Jesus: “33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    (Matthew 12:33-37)

    Eric: “Sandra Fluck – Attention Whore … 15 seconds of fame over … back to screwing zoo chimps and the Georgetown football team … yawn, snoooze .. whatever.”

    Well DONE on showing us what Christianity really stands for, Eric.

  59. Tell us again about how you want to bring people to your brand of “Christianity”, Eric.

    Well, I tried the serious approach (citing CS Lewis). That didn’t work.
    I threw out the promise of Eternal Life. That didn’t work, either.
    I tried humor. No luck there.

    There are those who are blind, then those who wrap bandages around their heads so they can’t see.

  60. And it’s not surprising you so deceitfully evade answering the question, “What exactly do you think your Jesus would have said about the lying and sexual slurs on this blog aimed at Ms Fluke?”, Eric.

    Pho, your obsessions with Miss Fluck are none of my concern.

    Still, if you love her so much, she might give you a free fluck in return for a banana …

  61. Yorkshire
    Tuesday, 5 November 2013 at 13:31

    DNW
    Tuesday, 5 November 2013 at 12:29
    “Actually, Dumbass, there’s more evidence that God exists than there is you exist. ”

    What if Pho is just a machine stationed in [New] Zealand typing random insults? It it possible.”

    It’s more than possible. On its own say so, it is a metaphysical certainty. On the terms Phoenician in a Time of Romans has previously laid out describing his view of reality (with and for Perry Hood), Phoenician is by its own definition a literally mindless, (thank you Churchlands both), purposeless, pointless, meat machine.

    He is, or rather it is, and only is, a material object, different in mere and cosmically insignificant degree from a common garden slug. Soulless, mindless in any traditional sense, it’s very self a mere illusion, it is nothing as a person, and no more ultimately than a congeries of radically contingent impulsions which we describe as appetites, temporarily emanating from within a skin bag. The fact that it comes here to chafe itself, is purely the pointless outcome of meaningless processes accidentally piled up. All this is on Phoenician’s own say so and implications.

    In taking what Phoenician in a Time of Romans says (or repeats, since he’s too stupid to really argue what he seemingly asserts) seriously, we would have no more reason to react to him lying at our feet whimpering with a crushed face, any differently than we would to a tree limb dropping to the ground as a result of a stiff breeze.

    More mystifying than your praying for it, is its own seeming conviction that it has the kind of right to consideration or to life, which on its own theory it cannot in fact intrinsically or even objectively have.

  62. The Phoenician pouts,

    “Well DONE on showing us what Christianity really stands for, Eric.”

    LOL

    If a Catholic version of Eric applauded Sandra Fluke for undermining his institutions of formation, sneering at his sacred traditions, and mocking his God, would this somehow persuade Phoenician that Christianity was true?

    Fluke, an apostate Protestant to all appearances, an unprincipled opportunist and enemy of the traditions and doctrines of the Catholic Church for certain, has no more claim to the fellowship and respect of Catholic or any other sincere Christians, than Phoenician has to his own life based on natural law theory.

    Fluke is a 30 something collectivist activist who intended from the start to undermine the integrity of a Church, parts of which unwisely extended welcoming a hand to her.

    They spoke nicely to her. They offered her a public service scholarship. They invited her in. And she plotted from the first to undermine them. After giving her all they had to give consistent with their integrity, she demanded more entailing their abandonment of it..

    See how well making-nice and offering her respect and consideration worked to effect her conversion?

    I always wonder about that “you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar” line whether stated outright or implied.

    For who in their right mind wants to collect fascist flies that are out of theirs?

  63. DNW:
    It’s more than possible. On its own say so, it is a metaphysical certainty. On the terms Phoenician in a Time of Romans has previously laid out describing his view of reality (with and for Perry Hood), Phoenician is by its own definition a literally mindless, (thank you Churchlands both), purposeless, pointless, meat machine.

    “In The Beginning” (The Moody Blues)
    [First Man:] I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think.

    [Establishment:] Of course you are my bright little star,
    I’ve miles
    And miles
    Of files
    Pretty files of your forefather’s fruit
    and now to suit our
    great computer,
    You’re magnetic ink. < ----- Anyone we know here?

    [First Man:] I’m more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.

    [Inner Man:] There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
    Face piles
    And piles
    Of trials
    With smiles.
    It riles them to believe
    that you perceive
    the web they weave
    And keep on thinking free. < ------- One we don't know :-)

  64. I fail to understand how my opinion of one Sandra Fluke in any way is related to my Christianity. As a human being I have a right to think her a Jezebel, a harlot, a whore and as DNW so plainly pointed a person who wanted to cause harm to the very institution which opened its arms and doors to her. So then add too, a misanthrope and malevolent douche. Then again, it’s just my opinion of her so to Dumbass, I must be lying.

  65. Well, I tried the serious approach (citing CS Lewis). That didn’t work.
    I threw out the promise of Eternal Life. That didn’t work, either.
    I tried humor. No luck there.

    Jesus: “33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    (Matthew 12:33-37)

    Eric: “Sandra Fluck – Attention Whore … 15 seconds of fame over … back to screwing zoo chimps and the Georgetown football team … yawn, snoooze .. whatever.”

    Well DONE on showing us what Christianity really stands for, Eric.

    There are those who are blind, then those who wrap bandages around their heads so they can’t see.

    Indeed – James 1:26

  66. Hoagie
    Tuesday, 5 November 2013 at 16:33

    I fail to understand how my opinion of one Sandra Fluke in any way is related to my Christianity. “

    That’s because you do not quite fully understand the workings of a collectivist’s brain. For them, the only proof of your Christian bona fides is to be found in your practicing their particular stamp-of-approval version of masochistic and self destructive altruism. Your sacrifice to the destruction of yourself and your family to their benefit, constitutes proof to their mind, that you are a Christian … which they think is being contemptible and stupid anyway.

    It’s the same implied but fallacious argument we have seen them insinuate here time and time again. They hope to lead you into a dilemma wherein you either become demoralized and unable to defend your interests through reproaching yourself for hypocrisy; or, where you are lulled into abandoning your legitimate interests through chasing their cynically abridged and supernaturally deracinated version of “your faith”: which is stripped of everything but the principle of self-sacrifice for no particularly spiritual end.

    Imagine however the case of an unapologetic Satanist saying to a priest, “Your refusal to allow our desecration of the host, and the performance of an orgiastic coprophagous celebration of our escape from moral shame and natural revulsion upon your tax exempt meeting place’s altar is exclusionary, bigoted, anti-sex, and violates the principles of equal access and protection before the law.”

    You, irritated, and despite your Protestantism and skepticism of the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence, call the Satanist a “shit bag”. And then Phoenician calls you a liar because the Satanist isn’t really a bag literally filled with excrement; just someone who wanted to smear the altar with it, and as deliberately offensive and humanly unwelcome as one, to believers.

    And thus we have la Fluke; scheming to bring in (and she had plenty of 5th column help within, to be frank) “the abomination of desolation” into the heart of first that Catholic institution, and ultimately the Church itself.

    And though the Satanist scenario I laid out seems implausible at the moment, the notion of sexually disordered males demanding access to at least the premises in order perform their coprohole parody of holy matrimony, no longer does. And given what Perry Hood said about compelling clerics to perform these homosexual parodies in Christian churches, it’s not difficult to imagine something almost as absurd as the Satanist illustration not so very far off.

    When it does happen, and you express outrage, Phoenician will be obsessively there to check your language for literalness.

    “As a human being I have a right to think her a Jezebel, a harlot, a whore and as DNW so plainly pointed a person who wanted to cause harm to the very institution which opened its arms and doors to her. So then add too, a misanthrope and malevolent douche. “

    Phoenician apparently does not even believe, like a certain number of more notorious as well as better credentialed crackpots, that Jesus of Nazareth existed even as a mortal person of some kind. So what use he has for anything a completely fictional Jesus never actually had to say, other than as a brickbat is a mystery. What possible authority or legitimacy could any of this non-persons’ not really stated aphorisms hold on Phoenician’s view?

    What consistent and principled non-theistic standard of morality Phoenician has, if he has any, and on what it is based or to what it refers, since it cannot be natural law or teleology, is anyone’s guess. Maybe he is one of those clowns who likes to point to the sky and shout, “Here comes the sentience saucer!”, or maybe he’s one of those logic impaired utilitarian goofballs. In any event, it is difficult to see what objection he could possibly have to a non-Christian running roughshod over and harrowing Sandra Fluke’s reputation and person, apart from some emotional reaction he might have based on some feeling of identification he has with her. Which, on good old materialist grounds, is a purely subjective projection upon events which have in themselves no intrinsic ethical signification anyway.

    I guess if you were not a Christian you could degrade her in any way you liked, and all that Phoenician would be able to say was either that he did not like it, or that it violated some culturally relative convention of some kind or another, which was accepted by some greater or lesser number of people, at some more or less describable moment. For whatever that would be worth; i.e. nothing.

    “Then again, it’s just my opinion of her so to Dumbass, I must be lying.”

    A man takes up a baseball bat and smashes lefty journalist and polemicist Robert Fisk’s face in with it. Does the tree falling in the forest really make any sound if no one is there to hear it?

  67. Phoenician in a Time of Romans, quoting, writes:

    “Jesus: “33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. 35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    I guess if Phoenician believes that, then he’s in real trouble by his own standards.

    To begin, here’s a quote for him: “Mark you this, Bassanio,
    The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
    An evil soul producing holy witness”

    And so here is this, from the text Phoenician the mocker left out JUST PRIOR to the very passage he quoted,

    “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”

    So perhaps Phoenician ought to reread rather more carefully what he has himself quoted.

  68. So perhaps Phoenician ought to reread rather more carefully what he has himself quoted.

    You really are a complete friggin’ moron, aren’t you, squid?

    I’m not a Christian. I don’t bother obeying the Wholly Babble any more than I bother keeping kosher or praying to Mecca five times a day.

    By his actions, Eric isn’t a Christian either. I’m just rubbing his nose in that fact.

  69. Eric: “Sandra Fluck – Attention Whore … 15 seconds of fame over … back to screwing zoo chimps and the Georgetown football team … yawn, snoooze .. whatever.”

    Pho, if you didn’t laugh your ass off when you read that, I’ll nail you for a liar.

  70. Skewered and squealing, Sandra Fluke’s decaying little gunsel (thought I’d throw in some more “Shakespeare” here) Phoenician in a time of Romans, indignantly sputters …

    Tuesday, 5 November 2013 at 20:13

    So perhaps Phoenician ought to reread rather more carefully what he has himself quoted.

    You really are a complete friggin’ moron, aren’t you, squid?

    I’m not a Christian. I don’t bother obeying the Wholly Babble any more than I bother keeping kosher or praying to Mecca five times a day.

    By his actions, Eric isn’t a Christian either. I’m just rubbing his nose in that fact.”

    Painfully slow on the uptake of his own pathetic play, is the poor bitter dweeb Phoenician. Even after the ball hits him right between his bizarrely wide-set eyes.

    Well as we all know, irony, “I guess if Phoenician believes that, then he’s in real trouble by his own standards”, is invariably lost on a delusional fanatic. Especially on an unintelligent and poorly educated one of the kind the NZ “librarian” Phoenician in a Time of Romans has demonstrated himself to be. Cursed by nature with a malevolently obsessive striving, which exceeds both his reach and his feeble grasp …

    Apparently that Waikamungo School of Hairdressing and Library Science education didn’t do much of anything to improve it.

  71. “Pho, if you didn’t laugh your ass off when you read that, I’ll nail you for a liar.”

    The seriously emotionally ill seldom seem to have much of a sense of humor. Sarcasm and Schadenfreude is about the best they can muster. Add in nihilistic fanaticism, envy, and putrefying feet, and you’ve got a recipe for … well … for Phoenician in a Time of Romans.

    Oh, reports are that he might have once laughed about an emu or an ostrich or something trying to mount his so-called “gf”. If that counts for anything.

    Whether it was a case of an understandably mistaken identity, or not, was left hanging and somewhat vague.

  72. Hi DNW;

    Well, I’m done. I’ve done my duty. We’re supposed to spread the Good News, but we’re not required to keep pounding on the same deaf blockhead day after day, especially when it has filled its own ears with cement so as not to hear.

    You’d think that when someone with a background in science and engineering, i.e., someone not normally given to flights of fancy, talks about eternal life and means it, that he would at least be curious as to why. Or you’d think that a librarian would give some credence to a great literary figure, which is why I cited CS Lewis. But apparently not. So I tried and it didn’t work. Flogging dead horses and all that.

    So back to ignoring him I guess. Why give an Attention Whore what he craves most? That said, I did have one last, final thought. For a long time, I though your phrase that he “Lives only to shit in other people’s swimming pools” nailed him perfectly. A malevolent pest, in other words. But now I think it may be worse. He may actually be psychotic. His obsession over Sandra Fluck and her sexual habits has a distinctly John Hinckley-Jodie Foster quality about it.

    But enough of that. Like I said, I tried, and it didn’t work. Back to ignoring the Attention Whore. Even a whore will stop whoring when there’s no money coming in.

  73. Eric
    Tuesday, 5 November 2013 at 22:09

    Hi DNW;

    Well, I’m done. I’ve done my duty …

    For all the understandable annoyance it has caused ropelight and Dana, one small and unequivocal nugget is clearly there to be sifted from all the hectoring trash that the Phoenician has emitted.

    He has plainly stated that he is trolling this site for the purpose of flaming others with accusations of hypocrisy, for their failing to live up to biblical standards which he himself scoffs at. Thus Phoenician is finally driven to the same point Perry finally arrived at: an unequivocal if petulant admission as to what he was really about. And it was not about honest discussion or argument regarding ends or means.

    Furthermore, we have also had a very nice illustration of the librarian Phoenician in a Time of Roman’s dishonest manipulation of texts: wherein he steps over a passage which in its intent is, and which he well knows is, directed precisely at those like him, in order to try and indict you instead.

    When caught out cheating the text, he shrugs at being caught out with a remark to the effect that he was just doing what he was doing in order to harm another, not because he took anything he said or was quoting seriously in a substantive sense.

    Not only has Phoenician no Christian morals; Phoenician on his own shrugging evidence has no honorable morals or standards at all.

    Believe then in a supernatural realm or not, the passage, “The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness …” is particularly apt as applied to Phoenician in a Time of Romans.

    As is also this from the immediately preceding sentences which he carefully omitted, ” whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”

    My own view is that if there were an existence beyond this one, and if it turned out that the Christian Scriptures described the framework of ultimate reality as accurately as could be expected all things considered, and if we reached a point wherein it was certain that the Christian God existed, then Phoenician in a Time of Romans would join the opposing side, trying to tear apart all of reality and everyone else within it, because Phoenician was not God, and no one thought him and his negligible natural powers and paltry achievements worthy of any special consideration, much less veneration or love.

    On the other hand, and on his own terms, he is just a speck of malicious flotsam floating on a sea tending toward entropy. He knows it but is convinced that God or nature or someone somewhere has cheated him. If not, he asks pursuing his line of magical thinking, why else would he be such a miserable physical and mental specimen? It all pisses him off so very much. And he intends to make others taste his misery.

    As for your evaluation of his mental state: He might be much worse than the “emotionally ill” case I have stated he plainly is. He might be, as you suggest virtually psychotic and unhinged. For all we know he could be on psychotropic medications. He’s admitted to being on all kinds of others.

    But either way, in a universe with God or without, this pathetic little devil’s disciple, still lives only to shit in other people’s swimming pools.

    Dana should ban him without further comment or explanation.

  74. We’re supposed to spread the Good News,

    Uh-huh.

    Eric: “Sandra Fluck – Attention Whore … 15 seconds of fame over … back to screwing zoo chimps and the Georgetown football team … yawn, snoooze .. whatever.”

    Yeah, you’re a wonderful advertisement for Christianity there, Eric.

  75. But either way, in a universe with God or without, this pathetic little devil’s disciple, still lives only to shit in other people’s swimming pools.

    DNW, I think what we’re dealing with here is that old expression “Crazy as a shithouse rat”. We’re looking for rational motives in a creature that has none. It defies all attempts at rational analysis. It simply can’t be figured put in terms rational people understand. Picture a bat on PCP flying around in someone’s house, bouncing off the walls, smashing into things, etc. Nothing it does makes any sense, has any rational purpose, it just goes around doing it all the same. Until the homeowner decides he’s had enough, takes a tennis racquet, amd the next time it comes by, smacks it into oblivion.

    In this case, the homeowner is Dana. It’s Dana’s house, and it’s up to him to decide when to give the filthy rodent a good swat. The rest of us, being merely guests, can only encourage Dana to do what needs to be done, and, if he won’t, choose to either stay and ignore the pest, or else return to our own homes and enjoy some peace.

  76. DNW, I think what we’re dealing with here is that old expression “Crazy as a shithouse rat”.

    Uh-huh.

    “Anyway, I have gotten to the point where I consider any further analysis of left wingers and their loathsome ideology to be pointless. The proper focus now is on how to beat them. A conservative should treat a left winger the way a man treats a disobedient dog. You let the beast know whose boss through whatever means work best. And if the thing turns rabid, starts foaming at the mouth a la Chris Matthews or Mike Moore, then you do the humane thing, drag it behind the garage, and shoot it.”

    - Eric, Friday, 5 April 2013 at 22:19

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