From around the blogroll

Your editor has the extreme privilege of working this Saturday, and hasn’t really any particular theme on which he wishes to write this evening, so I’ll take the easy way out point out some of the other interesting articles I’ve seen.

First of all, from William Teach: Having Solved All Of America’s Problems, Dem Senate To Hold Hearing On NFL Bounties. Yup, that’s right: the United States Senate hasn’t passed a budget in over three years now, the country is staring at a major long-term debt crisis, and the Distinguished Gentlemen think that they have time to investigate the “bounty” system discovered o the New Orleans Saints.

Also from Mr Teach: DOJ Argues No Severability With ObamaCare Mandate. The Obama Administration has made the (actually pretty reasonable) argument to the Supreme Court that the Affordable Care Act provision which prohibits insurance companies from denying coverage for a pre-existing condition cannot stand if the individual mandate is invalidated.

Several people have written about Rick Santorum’s suggestion that we might be no worse off with Barack Obama than Mitt Romney as President:

You win by giving people a choice. You win by giving people the opportunity to see a different vision for our country, not someone who’s just going to be a little different than the person in there. If you’re going to be a little different, we might as well stay with what we have instead of taking a risk with what may be the Etch A Sketch candidate of the future.

Sister Toldjah, Patterico, Allahpundit and Robert Stacy McCain have some discussion.

The Lonely Conservative noted President Obama’s odd choice for head of the World Bank. It seems that Dr Jim Yong Kim’s background is in academia and health, not economics or finance. Shouldn’t someone with experience in, oh, banking, be a more logical choice?

Tina Korbe noted Mitt Romney’s increasing support among registered Republicans:

Rick Santorum still leads in Louisiana, but the three-quarters of voters there who think Mitt Romney will still be the nominee might be right. According to Gallup’s daily tracking poll, the former Massachusetts governor has the widest lead he’s had in weeks:

Romney has the backing of 40% of registered Republicans nationwide, while Santorum comes in with 26%, according to Gallup’s daily tracking poll.

The 40% threshold also marks the highest point ever for Romney (or any other candidate) since the daily survey began measuring support in early November.

The poll shows a six-point increase for Romney since Tuesday, the same day he won the Illinois primary. Meanwhile, Santorum dropped four points in the same time period.

So dies the myth that Mitt Romney can’t attract more than 25 percent of the vote? Perhaps it wasn’t a ceiling, but a floor, after all. That’s the most positive part of this poll — that Republicans might rally after all to whoever becomes the nominee even if that nominee is Romney.

ALa is getting a puppy.

The Laughing Conservative sneaked (snuck?) into the White House and read the President’s diary.

And finally, via Donald Douglas, a Katy Perry video:

The video was filmed at the Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base in Oceanside, California, over three days, and all of the others in the video are real Marines; no actors, no dancers, just Marines.

It reminds me that I have to get to work on our version of Rule 5 Blogging for tomorrow!

296 Comments

  1. Mr Editor, all the issues you have listed would make for interesting discussion and debate, but most telling is the fact that you left out probably the most telling issue in our headlines these days: The murder of 17 year old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, FL, by a self-appointed vigilante.

    You might want to ask yourself why this omission, Mr Editor?

    PS: That said, I like your inclusion of an open forum, which then enables commenters to pick their own topic of interest for discussion.

  2. I haven’t discussed the death of Trayvon Martin because we don’t have all of the facts on that unfortunate incident. It’s being played up in the media as wanna-be cop just plain murders innocent black kid, but the emotions involved and the fever-pitch of the discussions elsewhere don’t give me any confidence that we really know all of the facts.

    The editors of The Philadelphia Inquirer, among others, have used the incident to attack the “stand your ground” law in Florida, but that hardly seems appropriate. Geraldo Rivera noted that Mr Martin’s dress, the wearing of a “hoodie” and “gangsta” clothes, might have contributed to George Zimmerman believing that Mr Martin really was a “gangsta.” Me, I just plain don’t know what happened.

  3. I think we know enough to conclude that the perp, Mr Zimmerman, should have been incarcerated and questioned intensely.

    We also know that he was a self-appointed neighborhood watch individual who was patrolling with a hand gun, and that he decided on his own to pursue this young lad after being told not to do so.

    Also, the Sanford Chief of Police and the FL State Investigator have both stepped down.

    The legislator who originated the “stand your ground” law has said that his law has been misapplied in this case.

    This incident has touched a nerve, because it appears to some that the Jim Crow ideology may well be resurfacing in this case, though I do agree that there is more that needs to be learned about this case, especially regarding the background of this perp Mr George Zimmerman.

    Regarding Geraldo Rivera’s hoodie theory, the Miami Heat basketball team made their own statement about that.

  4. WW wrote:

    I think we know enough to conclude that the perp, Mr Zimmerman, should have been incarcerated and questioned intensely.

    Unless you mean, “taken in for questioning” by “incarcerated,” you might be jumping the gun.


    Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

    Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
    Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

    ORLANDO – A witness we haven’t heard from before paints a much different picture than we’ve seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

    The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

    Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

    What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

    The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

    It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn’t have gone to jail.

    Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

    And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

    But one man’s testimony could be key for the police.

    “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

    Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

    The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.

    His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

    “When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

    Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

    Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

    Is this story accurate? I don’t know, but it’s just another piece of evidence which makes my point: this story has been so politicized that we don’t really know what actually happened. The shooting may or may not have been justified, but we don’t know the answer, and I’m not going to take a position, one way or the other, based on such incomplete knowledge.

  5. I would say, however, that your choice of the word “perp” as the description for Mr Zimmerman is a loaded one, a slang term which means “One who perpetrates a crime.” The fact is that neither you nor I know if a crime has been committed here.

  6. But we do know one thing: whether George Zimmerman committed a crime or not, our good friends on the left are using the incident to attack, in this video from MSNBC, Rush Limbaugh, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney:

  7. Mr Editor, Wagonwheel, who absolutely refuses to apologize for his salacious and hypocritical homophobic sexual slurs against Conservatives, who absolutely refuses to apologize for his insane accusations that a duly elected Governor who signed a legal and Constitutional Bill passed by two Houses of a duly elected Legislature is a supposed dictator, who absolutely refuses to condemn a Socialist who used fraud and identity theft as methods to violate mediation, knew exactly what he was saying when he called a hitherto unindicted man (who is not even an “unindicted co-conspirator”) a criminal without indictment, trial, or conviction. You should know better than assume the best out of Wagonwheel; he’ll always disapoint you with his blatant hypocrisy, his blatant dishonesty, his blatant hate of those, like Governor Walker, who uphold the Constitution.

  8. Mr Editor, are you going to continue to permit these personal attacks to take place on your blog by the likes of Mr Hitchcock and koolo, or are you going to insist on maintaining a reasonable level of civility?

    “You should know better than assume the best out of Wagonwheel; he’ll always disapoint you with his blatant hypocrisy, his blatant dishonesty, his blatant hate of those, like Governor Walker, who uphold the Constitution.”

  9. There is a rush to judgement concerning Mr Zimmerman, and he may well be guilty . . . but he may also be innocent. The political hype around this case is very reminiscent of the Duke lacrosse team rape case that turned out not to have been a rape at all.

  10. “I would say, however, that your choice of the word “perp” as the description for Mr Zimmerman is a loaded one, a slang term which means “One who perpetrates a crime.” The fact is that neither you nor I know if a crime has been committed here.”

    Good point, I chose the wrong word. I should have said “person of interest”.

    And I realize that there is more to be learned about this case. But it should be obvious by now that a self-assigned volunteer neighborhood watch person should not have been on patrol with a loaded pistol. Moreover, from the new information you provided, it is no stretch to think that Trayvon may have concluded that he had to defend himself against the person he realized was following him.

    I also point out again that both the Chief of Police and the State’s Attorney have stepped down over this case, implying that this case had not been handled properly.

    Finally, we know that Trayvon’s blood was tested for alcohol and drugs, but Zimmerman was not tested for same. What is wrong with this picture, I ask?

    If the roles had been reversed, and a person of color had been the shooter, I will GD guarantee that said person would be behind bars pending the findings of the grand jury.

    And regarding the video comments quoted from Gingrich, Santorum, and Limbaugh, all three were stereotypically degrading racist remarks made about people of color which are way, way out of line. And I note, Mr Editor, that you made no comment about them, since, I suspect, you are insensitive to this sort of racist rhetoric, unfortunately. The New Jim Crow is alive and well in this country, also unfortunately.

  11. WW wrote:

    I also point out again that both the Chief of Police and the State’s Attorney have stepped down over this case, implying that this case had not been handled properly.

    No, it does not imply that. It could just as easily mean that they were stepping aside to prevent any appearance of a conflict of interest in this case.

  12. Take stock of the alleged person we have in Republican Newt Gingrich:

    Believe it or not, Newt Gingrich still thinks he has a chance to become President. But he isn’t helping himself by criticizing the President for offering his sympathies to the family of Trayvon Martin.

    On Friday, President Obama thoughtfully spoke about the shooting of Trayvon Martin, saying that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon. Instead of offering his own sympathies Newt Gingrich focused on that comment and went on the war path. Even though Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney have both offered their sympathies in response to the tragedy, Newt Gingrich decided to attack President Obama. On Friday, during an appearance on The Sean Hannity Radio Show, Gingrich called President Obama’s comment ‘disgraceful’ and ‘appalling.’

    Newt: “What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It’s not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background. Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot, that would be OK because it didn’t look like him. That’s just nonsense dividing this country up. It is a tragedy this young man was shot. It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans. When things go wrong to an American, it is sad for all Americans. Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong. I really find it appalling.”

    Newt Gingrich is a vile person, in my opinion!

  13. “The alleged person?”

    Now, I’m trying to figure out just what you find offensive about Mr Gingrich’s comment:

    What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It’s not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background. Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot, that would be OK because it didn’t look like him. That’s just nonsense dividing this country up. It is a tragedy this young man was shot. It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans. When things go wrong to an American, it is sad for all Americans. Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong. I really find it appalling.

    With which of those sentences do you disagree? Mr Gingrich was saying, in a nutshell, that the President is making a racial issue of this case, and that Mr Martin’s death would be a tragedy regardless of whom he was, what color he was, or where he came from? Do you disagree with that?

  14. “No, it does not imply that. It could just as easily mean that they were stepping aside to prevent any appearance of a conflict of interest in this case.”

    Oh please, Mr Editor, you are really stretching now! Why all this stretching? Principals stepping down like this is highly unusual; when it happens, it suggests serious blundering of the case. Get real!

    Why no intense questioning? Why no incarceration? Why no blood tests for alcohol and drugs of the shooter? Why was he patrolling with a loaded pistol? Why the refusal to stop following the lad? This does not constitute normal police behavior!

    I’m beginning to think that your are trying to find some blame on the part of the now dead young lad!

  15. I disagree with this: “Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot, that would be OK because it didn’t look like him? That’s just nonsense dividing this country up.”

    And this: “At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans.”

    And this: “Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong.”

    Without evidence, Gingrich assumes that President Obama is trying to make a racial issue of this incident, so he can then attack him for being a racist.

    It’s a Newt Gingrich straw man, a technique we witness on a daily basis on this blog by you folks, as I have pointed out specifically on numerous occasions.

    On this particular issue, Newt’s straw man is especially vile, in my opinion.

  16. Perry, your racism is showing, you keep referring to The New Jim Crow, but since George Zimmerman is Hispanic shouldn’t it be Jaime Cuervo? Just sayin’

  17. Wagonwheel, you disagree with the idea that, “At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans?” If it is the goal of the left that everyone is to be treated the same, that we ought not to discriminate against people due to their race, ethnicity, religion or sex, then why shouldn’t we talk about us all being Americans?

    You disagree with the idea that, “Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong?” Does this mean that you do believe that this should be a racially divisive issue?

  18. I happen to believe Obama’s remarks on this were appropriate — much more so than those uttered when Henry Gates was trying to get into his home and was confronted by police.

    SINP, unbelievably, is correct in that there are too many questions surrounding the local authorities’ handling of the matter at the onset. Zimmerman violated too many rules and explicit instructions by his own neighborhood watch and the police (911).

    That being said, once racial hucksters like Sharpton, Jackson and Farrakhan get involved — not to mention the mainstream media — don’t expect much in the way of reason.

  19. My “favorite” aspect of the media’s coverage of this: Zimmerman is a “white Hispanic.” Now, how often have we heard that phrase before? Like … never?

  20. Mr Editor, I erred in attempting to take a sentence out of context, because this changes the meaning. Here is the context:

    “It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans.”

    The clear implication by Gingrich is that were the victim Puerto Rican, Cuban, Asian American, or Native American, then President Obama would not exhibit the same emotion.

    This is the same man who said of his first wife that she was not pretty enough to be First Lady, and who left his second wife on a sick bed while he dated the woman who turned out to be his third wife.

    All this, and much more, is the mark of a truly vile individual. There are reasons why this learned and intelligent individual is at the bottom of the barrel in the minds of those Republicans who are trying to decide on their candidate for the Presidency!

  21. SINP writes

    All this, and much more, is the mark of a truly vile individual. There are reasons why this learned and intelligent individual is at the bottom of the barrel in the minds of those Republicans who are trying to decide on their candidate for the Presidency!

    So? You’ve openly admired Al Sharpton in this forum before. Apparently “vile” is in the eye of the beholder, eh?

  22. Wagonwheel wrote:

    Mr Editor, I erred in attempting to take a sentence out of context, because this changes the meaning. Here is the context:

    “It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans.”

    The clear implication by Gingrich is that were the victim Puerto Rican, Cuban, Asian American, or Native American, then President Obama would not exhibit the same emotion.

    Is that not a reasonable inference, given that the President noted that, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon?” I can understand that you might not have made that inference, but a different person reasonably could.

    This is the same man who said of his first wife that she was not pretty enough to be First Lady, and who left his second wife on a sick bed while he dated the woman who turned out to be his third wife.

    You have the history wrong. According to Jackie Gingrich Cushman, who is the daughter of Mr Gingrich and his first wife, her parents were already separating and in the process of getting a divorce when Jackie Brattley Gingrich was in the hospital. And the quote, “You know and I know that she’s not young enough or pretty enough to be the wife of a president,” came from a former friend of Mr Gingrich who broke off their friendship due to the divorce. As such, it’s authenticity is questionable.

    I am not saying that Mr Gingrich was some fine family man; far from it. Nor is Mr Gingrich my preferred Republican nominee. If he becomes our nominee, I will vote for him in November, because, as flawed as he is, because the very nice fellow, still married to his first wife, and a devoted father to their two daughters, is simply a lousy President.

  23. koolo, I do agree with you that Hube has written a comprehensive piece on this case, and very well done. Moreover, the first piece by Greg, a high school social studies teacher, was extraordinarily compassionate and well written. Thanks for the link!

  24. SINP writes

    koolo, I do agree with you that Hube has written a comprehensive piece on this case, and very well done. Moreover, the first piece by Greg, a high school social studies teacher, was extraordinarily compassionate and well written. Thanks for the link!

    See? We can agree on a few things! ;-)

  25. As for racism, Dan Riehl noticed that someone took the original photo from The Miami Herald and photoshopped it, including lightening Mr Martin’s face. It’s almost as though someone was playing into the old stereotype that lighter-skinned blacks are somehow more innocent than darker-complected blacks.

  26. “Is that not a reasonable inference, given that the President noted that, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon?” I can understand that you might not have made that inference, but a different person reasonably could.”

    Mr Editor, I suggest you read this piece, which comes from koolo’s link to Hube’s piece to which he linked to the piece by Rhymes with Right.

  27. Koolo, re Al Sharpton’s role on this Trayvon Martin case, I think he sees the very real possibility that race may have entered in to the handling of the case by the Sanford Police Chief and State’s Attorney, both of whom now have stepped down. I also think there may be confusion by the police in their application of the “stand your ground” law, the author of which claims that this law is being misapplied in this case.

    Moreover, there is evidence emerging that the 6’2″ athlete Trayvon Martin actually attacked George Zimmerman, which then underlines that Mr Zimmerman should not have been performing his volunteer duties armed with a pistol. My guess is that without his pistol, Mr Zimmerman would have obeyed the 911 dispatchers command not to follow the boy.

  28. SINP writes

    Koolo, re Al Sharpton’s role on this Trayvon Martin case, I think he sees the very real possibility that race may have entered in to the handling of the case by the Sanford Police Chief and State’s Attorney

    But of course. That’s what Sharpton does — whether accurate or not. Just ask those accused in the Tawana Brawley case.

    My guess is that without his pistol, Mr Zimmerman would have obeyed the 911 dispatchers command not to follow the boy.

    Yep. But even with the pistol he should have listened to the dispatcher.

  29. Unanswered questions: we need facts, not assumptions.

    When police arrived Martin was dead and Zimmerman was bleeding from from the head and face, plus his back was wet from having been pinned on the ground. Police handcuffed Zimmerman, placed him in custody, and transported him for questioning.

    A witness says it was Zimmerman who was calling for help immediately before Martin was shot and killed.

    If the recorded cries for help are coming from Zimmerman as Martin was on top of him and delivering blows, then Zimmerman’s claim he shot Martin while defending himself gains credibility, and makes subsequent police decisions more understandable.

    However, Zimmerman did have a gun against the rules and he was instructed to stop following Martin and to wait for the police to arrive.

    As of now, do we know if Zimmerman did follow instructions and cease tailing Martin? Or, did he continue the surveillance and consequently initiate the confrontation which ended in Martin’s death?

  30. According to Zimmerman, he did follow instructions, had stopped following Martin, and was returning to his SUV when Martin attacked him.

    How this might be confirmed or denied could very well determine Zimmerman’s fate. So far, the statement from the eyewitness who saw them struggling, and said it was Zimmerman who was calling out for help, does not include an indication of which one initiated the attack.

    It’s entirely possible he doesn’t know who started it, that his attention was drawn to the altercation by the panic calls for help. In which case we may never know with certainty who threw the first punch.

  31. “As for racism, Dan Riehl noticed that someone took the original photo from The Miami Herald and photoshopped it, including lightening Mr Martin’s face. It’s almost as though someone was playing into the old stereotype that lighter-skinned blacks are somehow more innocent than darker-complected blacks.”

    This is, of course, dead wrong on three counts.

    Firstly, if you follow the link, the darker picture was identified at the Miami Herald as “A photo of Trayvon Martin wearing a hoodie was used on banners and signs carried by protesters in New York City on March 21, 2012.” If you take a look at image 4 of the associated “boisterous crowd” link, you can actually see the sign. The lighter picture is the original.

    Secondly, the Miami Herald was using a photograph of a banner carrying a picture of Martin – a reproduction of a reproduction. Of course it’s darker – try comparing a photocopy of a photocopy to the original some time.

    Thirdly, and here comes the kicker – it demonstrates Riehl’s racism (and, by extension, the racism of anyone who buys into his little conspiracy theory). Martin was shot by a self-appointed vigilante who seems to have had a problem with black teens – it doesn’t matter whether he was dark skinned or light skinned or even just a white with a tan. The only people who seem to think it matters are Riehl, the Editor and any other people pushing this meme. The racism been seen here is, as is so common with the right, projected.

  32. I have heard and read so many different accounts of this tragedy or story, it could be either one was the idiot, or either one was the aggressor. The real fact is, we have a half a story depending who, what, and where you read it. The news in some instances have tried and convicted the “White Hispanic” (that’s a new one to me), or travon was the aggressor. BO has stuck his foot in his mouth and has an opinion with the same amount of facts as he did in Cambridge. So, this HAS to go to a Grand Jury and layout the time, the facts, who knows what as compared to who think they know every thing and go from there. Again, we have the same thing as Georgetown U. We know what we want to know and don’t confuse me with facts.

  33. “I have heard and read so many different accounts of this tragedy or story, it could be either one was the idiot, or either one was the aggressor”

    One of them had a bag of skittles, the other had a gun. One of them was trying to walk away, the other was following.

    “So, this HAS to go to a Grand Jury and layout the time, the facts, who knows what as compared to who think they know every thing and go from there.”

    Strangely enough, Yorkshire, this is exactly what (most of) the liberals are asking for. The problem is that the local police were letting Zimmerman go scott free until the protests started.

    “BO has stuck his foot in his mouth and has an opinion with the same amount of facts as he did in Cambridge.”

    Uh-huh. So what is it EXACTLY you think Obama has said, bearing in mind how often you have been wrong in the past, and that the video of his ACTUAL comments is readily available?

  34. “It’s entirely possible he [the eyewitness] doesn’t know who started it, that his attention was drawn to the altercation by the panic calls for help. In which case we may never know with certainty who threw the first punch.”

    True, ropelight, but we do know who came with the gun, who used the gun, and who shot dead the 17 year old Trayvon Martin, and that “who” is one George Zimmerman!

    “BO has stuck his foot in his mouth and has an opinion with the same amount of facts as he did in Cambridge.”

    That is just plain not true, Yorktown! Here is the comment which President Obama actually made:

    “I think every parent in America,” he said, “should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative to investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together — federal, state, and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.” He noted that he was glad that the Justice Department had stepped in to investigate the specifics of the case.

    “But my main message,” he added, “is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And, you know, I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if your version came from the nasty lying mouth of one Rush Limbaugh.

    And speaking of nasty, lying Rush Limbaugh:

    “Again, we have the same thing as Georgetown U. We know what we want to know and don’t confuse me with facts.”

    The fact is that Limbaugh made a nasty personal attack on Ms Fluke devoid of any facts, a disgraceful attack by a serial liar whose morals and ethics are seriously lacking. What if she were your daughter, Yorkshire? You seem to approve of Rush’s attack!

  35. Secondly, the Miami Herald was using a photograph of a banner carrying a picture of Martin – a reproduction of a reproduction. Of course it’s darker – try comparing a photocopy of a photocopy to the original some time.

    Photocopy? Who even uses that term anymore aside from school teachers in the digital era? LOL! Nevertheless, where is your proof of this?

    Thirdly, and here comes the kicker – it demonstrates Riehl’s racism (and, by extension, the racism of anyone who buys into his little conspiracy theory). Martin was shot by a self-appointed vigilante who seems to have had a problem with black teens – it doesn’t matter whether he was dark skinned or light skinned or even just a white with a tan. The only people who seem to think it matters are Riehl, the Editor and any other people pushing this meme.

    Uh huh. Then what accounts for the outrage — by the Left, mind you — surrounding these magazine covers? http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/ojs-last-run-a-tale-of/ What was the problem with those who complained? You said “it doesn’t matter whether he was dark skinned or light skinned or even just a white with a tan.” According to you, (and here comes the kicker) this must demonstrate the racism of the minority groups who complained.

  36. “Photocopy? Who even uses that term anymore aside from school teachers in the digital era? LOL!”

    Are you posting while drunk?

    “Nevertheless, where is your proof of this?”

    You mean apart from, I dunno, the link in Riehl’s story to the MIAMI HERALD ITSELF?

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

    You mean apart from the picture of the sign itself shown in the related content?

    “Then what accounts for the outrage — by the Left, mind you — surrounding these magazine covers?”

    That would be pointing out actual racist assumptions made by a magazine who actually said that they actually manipulated the picture to get an actual effect.

    Which would be, you know, an entirely different circumstance from the actual racist assumptions made by a blogger who assumed that someone had manipulated a picture when no manipulation had been made and teh difference in skin colors didn’t matter to the demand that Zimmerman be charged.

    In the first case, the magazine did something racist – i.e. it manipulated a picture – and people observed it and called it out. In the second case, the blogger calling it out made up the supposed manipulation out of whole cloth, and in so doing revealed his own assumptions.

    It’s roughly the difference between being observed painting elephants pink, and being observed ranting about the pink elephants that aren’t really there.

    If you still have a problem following that, let us know.

  37. See here

    http://www.shallownation.com/2012/03/23/president-obama-trayvon-martin-case-speech-video-transcript-mar-23-2012/

    —-
    THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.

    But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

    So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

    But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.
    —-

    So Obama’s opinion – the one Yorkshire is objecting to as “sticking his foot in his mouth” is
    - the shooting was a tragedy
    - that needs to be investigated
    - and should probably make people think about how this happens
    - and that his parents should be reassured they will be taken seriously.

  38. Perry, what we don’t know, and what’s key to understanding not only why Zimmerman shot Martin, but also why the cops released Zimmerman after questioning him and the eyewitness, is who initiated physical contact.

    If Zimmerman was on his way back to his SUV and Martin attacked him in-route, then Zimmerman shouldn’t be charged with the killing, however, if Zimmerman ignored police instructions to cease following Martin, then pursued and attempted to subdue the teenager, his actions establish proximate cause.

    So far, there isn’t enough evidence in the public arena to make an informed call.

  39. WW:
    That is just plain not true, Yorktown! Here is the comment which President Obama actually made:

    “I think every parent in America,” he said, “should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative to investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together — federal, state, and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.” He noted that he was glad that the Justice Department had stepped in to investigate the specifics of the case.

    “But my main message,” he added, “is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And, you know, I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

    Rush wasn’t on Friday by the time this revved up. And the highlighted words from BO almost sound like code words to me. But more and more comes out. And all that is in a jumbled timeline and many cross accusations are made by all sides. Cool down, get the facts, then go. Not get facts that fit your predetermined outcome, but the neutral facts without spin. Twenty-Five years of doing claims analysis has shown there is always the truth in the middle of heated allegations.

  40. That would be pointing out actual racist assumptions made by a magazine who actually said that they actually manipulated the picture to get an actual effect.

    Referring to Time magazine as “racist” is sort of like calling Barack Obama “racist.” If you read the link, the “actual effect” had nothing to do with race/racism. This is your (and those who complained) interpretation of such. But this is just another example of your cluelessness when it comes to American media.

    You mean apart from, I dunno, the link in Riehl’s story to the MIAMI HERALD ITSELF?

    I admit I didn’t take a whole heck of a lot of time reading a THREE PAGE online story that you linked to, but maybe you can help an old guy out as to just where it says that.

  41. Never mind, Anna … I just scoped out all the associated links and pics and discovered that my first instinct was correct: You’re full of sh**. You’ve no proof whatsoever. That, and saying that a “reproduction of a reproduction” is always darker is patent nonsense. I photocopy all the time … there’s many different controls on modern copiers to control for contrast and brightness.

  42. York writes

    And the highlighted words from BO almost sound like code words to me.

    Don’t you get it? Only [conservative/Republican] whites use “code words,” York.

    Still, as I said previously, I really find nothing wrong with the presidents words.

  43. WW wrote:

    Koolo, re Al Sharpton’s role on this Trayvon Martin case, I think he sees the very real possibility that race may have entered in to the handling of the case by the Sanford Police Chief and State’s Attorney, both of whom now have stepped down. I also think there may be confusion by the police in their application of the “stand your ground” law, the author of which claims that this law is being misapplied in this case.

    Uhhh, it appears to be the Rev Sharpton’s profession to see a “very real possibility that race may have entered in to the handling” of anything under discussion.

    Moreover, there is evidence emerging that the 6’2″ athlete Trayvon Martin actually attacked George Zimmerman, which then underlines that Mr Zimmerman should not have been performing his volunteer duties armed with a pistol. My guess is that without his pistol, Mr Zimmerman would have obeyed the 911 dispatchers command not to follow the boy.

    Huh? If “there is evidence emerging that the 6’2″ athlete Trayvon Martin actually attacked George Zimmerman,” wouldn’t that “underline” the fact that Mr Zimmerman was right to have been armed? Otherwise, he stood a very good possibility of getting beaten up, possibly severely, and possibly even to death. Note: this comment does not assume that the stories that Mr Martin assaulted Mr Zimmerman are correct, but is simply responding to the debating point.

  44. Koolo says:
    March 25, 2012 at 18:18 (Edit)

    York writes

    And the highlighted words from BO almost sound like code words to me.

    Don’t you get it? Only [conservative/Republican] whites use “code words,” York.

    But the words from Revvum Sharpton and Louie Farrakhan needed no interpretation which didn’t help. And to keep it racial I noticed the term “White Hispanic” used. First for me hearing that.

  45. “Referring to Time magazine as “racist” is sort of like calling Barack Obama “racist.” ”

    Firstly, it’s like calling Time magazine racist, not Obama. Secondly, I didn’t call it racist – I said there were racist assumptions made by it (or one of its editors, to be more exact).

    “I admit I didn’t take a whole heck of a lot of time reading a THREE PAGE online story that you linked to, but maybe you can help an old guy out as to just where it says that.”

    That would be right underneath the photograph, Koolo. The photograph is that thing which isn’t made of words, next to the words, with Martin’s face in it. The caption I quoted is the words right under the photograph, below it, downwards. They’re written in English. If you need more help, consult a dictionary for the toughies.

    “Never mind, Anna … I just scoped out all the associated links and pics and discovered that my first instinct was correct: You’re full of sh**. You’ve no proof whatsoever.”

    Uh-huh. The caption says the portrait taken from a sign, and here’s the sign itself:

    http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/03/22/19/19/hb2D2.St.56.jpg

    You were saying?

    Oh, and Mr Editor, please censor Koolo’s post dated March 25, 2012 at 18:16 – personal attack.

  46. “And the highlighted words from BO almost sound like code words to me”

    Indeed – that’s just about the definition of “projection”, Yorkshire.

  47. Miss Nova, look at Mr Martin’s hair and black t-shirt in the retouched photo; it’s very obviously been photoshopped, as even black hair and a black t-shirt would not come out looking like that in an unretouched photograph.

  48. “Miss Nova, look at Mr Martin’s hair and black t-shirt in the retouched photo; it’s very obviously been photoshopped, as even black hair and a black t-shirt would not come out looking like that in an unretouched photograph.”

    Rubbish. The picture on the left doesn’t show signs of photoshopping – it shows signs of graininess – which is what happens when you have a reproduction of a reproduction.

    Are you listening to yourself – you’re claiming “they” photoshopped the boy’s skin, and your “proof” of this is that his t-shirt also looks different?!???!? I mean, WTF?

  49. ““BO has stuck his foot in his mouth and has an opinion with the same amount of facts as he did in Cambridge.””

    Well, that’s an interesting claim, if at odds with teh facts of what Obama ACTUALLY said. I wonder though…

    http://www.inquisitr.com/209978/florida-gov-jeb-bush-says-stand-your-ground-law-doesnt-apply-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/

    —-
    Florida Gov. Jeb Bush Says ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law Doesn’t Apply to Trayvon Martin Shooting

    Speaking at an education panel at a Texas university, Bush said:

    “This law does not apply to this particular circumstance… Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”
    —-

    …why you seem to be applying a double standard – shouldn’t you be making the same comments about Republicans who actually ARE making such comments?

  50. My comment: “Secondly, the Miami Herald was using a photograph of a banner carrying a picture of Martin – a reproduction of a reproduction. Of course it’s darker – try comparing a photocopy of a photocopy to the original some time.”

    Koolo’s reply: “That, and saying that a “reproduction of a reproduction” is always darker is patent nonsense. I photocopy all the time … there’s many different controls on modern copiers to control for contrast and brightness.”

    I realise many RWAs have problems with abstraction, but are you really unable to cope with this concept?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy

  51. Trayvon Martin shooting: George Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him, then began hammering his head, police say

    By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
    10:52 a.m. EDT, March 26, 2012

    With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.
    Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

    In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

    Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

    Civil rights leaders and thousands of others have demanded Zimmerman’s arrest, calling Trayvon a victim of racial profiling and Zimmerman a vigilante.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326,0,2228143,full.story

  52. If there turns out to have been a videotape of the entire incident, and it unquestionably shows Mr Martin assaulting Mr Zimmerman in just the manner described, it won’t make one bit of difference to those who have already made this a cause celebré.

  53. Editor says:
    March 26, 2012 at 12:17

    If there turns out to have been a videotape of the entire incident, and it unquestionably shows Mr Martin assaulting Mr Zimmerman in just the manner described, it won’t make one bit of difference to those who have already made this a cause celebré.

    I know the minds are made up and they do not want to be confused with facts. And some black group has placed a bounty on Zimmerman, the “white” hispanic.

  54. WHERE”S THE OUTRAGE, WHERE’S OBAMA’S COMMENTS,

    Police hunt 3 men in MSU shooting

    STARKVILLE, Miss., March 25 (UPI) — Police Sunday searched for three men suspected in the fatal shooting of a student at a residence hall on the Mississippi State University Starkville campus.
    Campus police received a 911 call reporting the shooting at Evans Hall at about 10 p.m. Saturday, MSU Vice President for Student Affairs Bill Kibler said. The student, whose name was not reported, died shortly after being taken to OCH Regional Medical Center, WTVA-TV, Tupelo, Miss., reported Sunday.

    Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/03/25/Police-hunt-3-men-in-MSU-shooting/UPI-40361332681022/#ixzz1qFGesvte

  55. One thing you should all keep in mind is that Zimmerman gave chase to Martin. If a strange dude was chasing you and you felt threatened, would you not attack the person as Martin did? I find Zimmerman’s “self defense” claim specious given that he was the instigator of the confrontation.

  56. Koolo, you say “Zimmerman gave chase to Martin.”

    Please review my comments yesterday at 14:11 and at 17:47 both address that very issue. I’m interested in why you conclude Zimmerman was chasing Martin and why you assert as fact that Zimmerman instigated the confrontation.

    Are you assuming facts not in evidence?

  57. Has anyone here listened to the tape of Zimmerman calling the first time?

    He seems to say that Martin is approaching his car.

    This is going to be a strange business if it turns out that Martin approached Zimmerman’s car after spotting him talking to the police department.

    That Zimmerman ignored instructions not to leave his car and interact with Martin.

    That Martin, offended by Zimmerman’s 1, observation of him and 2, subsequent approach, physically assaulted Zimmerman,

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3DXfdndLes

  58. ropelight writes

    Are you assuming facts not in evidence?

    No. There’s the recording of the call where Zimmerman is following Martin (where he supposedly utters a racial epithet). And Zimmerman instigated the confrontation because he disobeyed the 911 dispatcher’s instructions and pursued Martin. If you’re a lone kid and someone follows you (listen to Martin’s remarks to his girlfriend) and you have no idea who it is, how would YOU react? Sure sounds like a fight or flight situation. Why is it Martin’s fault that he chose the former?

    Also, the Zimmerman’s neighborhood watch manual itself states that he shouldn’t have been armed.

  59. “One thing you should all keep in mind is that Zimmerman gave chase to Martin. If a strange dude was chasing you and you felt threatened, would you not attack the person as Martin did? ”

    Based on the “stand your ground” laws, Martin should have shot Zimmerman down.

    Except, of course, that the cops would have arrested him, the papers would be full of stories about black thugs shooting down noble neighborhood watch volunteers – and the right wingers here would be screaming for him to be hung on live TV.

    It has been noticed elsewhere that the gun nuts and the NRA who usually scream about arming everyone when an incident occurs have been very very quiet about the rights of black seventeen year olds to tool up and start shooting when they feel threatened…

  60. Based on the “stand your ground” laws, Martin should have shot Zimmerman down.

    Actually, that’s not what the law says. Nice try, though. Maybe I can photocopy it for you … but it may be too dark to read, then.

  61. It has been noticed elsewhere that the gun nuts and the NRA who usually scream about arming everyone when an incident occurs have been very very quiet about the rights of black seventeen year olds to tool up and start shooting when they feel threatened…

    Where is this “elsewhere?” The NRA has consistently fought against gun bans and unreasonable restrictions anywhere in the country, including inner cities. In Hube’s home state, a few yrs agao the NRA went to bat for public housing residents (majority African-American) to possess firearms when the local government attempted to ban them.

    Oh, and over 25 states have “stand your ground” laws. Sounds “very very quiet” there too, eh?

  62. “Actually, that’s not what the law says. Nice try, though. Maybe I can photocopy it for you … but it may be too dark to read, then.”

    Uh-huh

    Florida Statutes 776.013 subsection (3)

    You might try reading a bit before opening your mouth and looking like a fool.

  63. Koolo,

    Here are the first few paragraphs from DNW’s link (at 15:40) to an ABC News report by Matt Gutman and Seni Tienabesco. (bold added)

    SANFORD, Fla., March 26

    George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.

    Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him.

    The new information is the most complete version yet of what Zimmerman claims happened on the night of Feb. 26 when he shot and killed the teenager.

    In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman’s description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin…

    Your conclusions fail to take Zimmerman’s account into consideration.

  64. “I find Zimmerman’s “self defense” claim specious given that he was the instigator of the confrontation.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/03/florida_s_stand_your_ground_law_doesn_t_prohibit_that_they_arrest_george_zimmerman_for_killing_trayvon_martin_.html

    —-
    But there are at least four reasons to doubt what Zimmerman has to say. First, there is the tape of his own 911 call, on which he is agitated by Martin merely because the 17-year-old was walking through the gated community where Zimmerman lives, and then grumbles, “These assholes. They always get away.” Second, this wasn’t Zimmerman’s first phone call like this. He has placed other 911 calls, 46 over 10 years, in which he reported black people for hanging out and children for playing in the street. Third, and most important, is the account of Martin’s girlfriend, who says he was talking to her on his cellphone in the moments before he died. She says Martin told her, “I think this dude is following me,” thought he’d lost Zimmerman, and then said, “He is right behind me again. I’m not going to run, I’m going to walk fast.” The girlfriend claims she next heard another voice say, “What are you doing around here?” to which Martin answered, “Why are you following me?” She then heard Martin get pushed and sounds as if his phone was hitting the ground.

    Last, there’s just the sheer unlikelihood of a teenager afraid he was being followed, and trying to walk away fast, suddenly turning and pouncing on a much bigger man. (Zimmerman weighed 100 pounds more than Martin.)
    —-

  65. “Your conclusions fail to take Zimmerman’s account into consideration.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/03/florida_s_stand_your_ground_law_doesn_t_prohibit_that_they_arrest_george_zimmerman_for_killing_trayvon_martin_.html

    —-
    But there are at least four reasons to doubt what Zimmerman has to say. First, there is the tape of his own 911 call, on which he is agitated by Martin merely because the 17-year-old was walking through the gated community where Zimmerman lives, and then grumbles, “These assholes. They always get away.” Second, this wasn’t Zimmerman’s first phone call like this. He has placed other 911 calls, 46 over 10 years, in which he reported black people for hanging out and children for playing in the street. Third, and most important, is the account of Martin’s girlfriend, who says he was talking to her on his cellphone in the moments before he died. She says Martin told her, “I think this dude is following me,” thought he’d lost Zimmerman, and then said, “He is right behind me again. I’m not going to run, I’m going to walk fast.” The girlfriend claims she next heard another voice say, “What are you doing around here?” to which Martin answered, “Why are you following me?” She then heard Martin get pushed and sounds as if his phone was hitting the ground.

    Last, there’s just the sheer unlikelihood of a teenager afraid he was being followed, and trying to walk away fast, suddenly turning and pouncing on a much bigger man. (Zimmerman weighed 100 pounds more than Martin.)

    —-

  66. These comments are why I am unwilling to take a stand on the issues of the actual incident. Some stories say that Mr Martin attacked, others have stated that Mr Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and the only known truth is that we don’t know the truth: there are too many reports, from too many biased sources, for me to have any confidence in any particular story.

    This whole episode reminds me of the Duke lacrosse team not rape case, where so many conclusions were drawn from very unreliable sources.

  67. “No. There’s the recording of the call where Zimmerman is following Martin (where he supposedly utters a racial epithet). And Zimmerman instigated the confrontation because he disobeyed the 911 dispatcher’s instructions and pursued Martin. If you’re a lone kid and someone follows you (listen to Martin’s remarks to his girlfriend) and you have no idea who it is, how would YOU react? Sure sounds like a fight or flight situation. Why is it Martin’s fault that he chose the former”

    Koolo, you appear to be thinking on this thread rather than just reacting. Congratulations on that.

    What do you think the media reaction (and the reaction on this blog) would have been if the races had been reversed – if a 240lb black 28 year old had followed and then shot an unarmed 140lb white 17 year old, and then claimed the 17 year old had jumped him? Would the police have arrested him? Would right wing blogs such as Riehl’s View be attempting to argue he was innocent?

    Would the right wingers on this blog be making the same arguments?

  68. “These comments are why I am unwilling to take a stand on the issues of the actual incident. Some stories say that Mr Martin attacked, others have stated that Mr Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and the only known truth is that we don’t know the truth: there are too many reports, from too many biased sources, for me to have any confidence in any particular story.”

    Uh-huh – but the Left is saying “investigate and prosecute”, not “hang him”. We already have a mechanism for trying to determine the truth from conflicting accounts – but the local cops have been reluctant to apply it to a white guy who shot a black kid for some reason.

  69. The lovely Miss Nova, whose comment was initially stuck in moderation but who has been very much sticking to the topic lately, wrote:

    “Your conclusions fail to take Zimmerman’s account into consideration.” (ropelight)

    But there are at least four reasons to doubt what Zimmerman has to say.

    And that makes my point: contradictory stories, and stories with which some people give more credence than others.

  70. Miss Nova wrote:

    Uh-huh – but the Left is saying “investigate and prosecute”, not “hang him”. We already have a mechanism for trying to determine the truth from conflicting accounts – but the local cops have been reluctant to apply it to a white guy who shot a black kid for some reason.

    Actually, not all of the left are saying, “investigate and prosecute,” not “hang him.” I see no reason not to investigate; a decision on prosecution ought to be taken after the results of the investigation.

    And I’d point out that your sentence, “but the local cops have been reluctant to apply it to a white guy who shot a black kid for some reason,” is, in itself, biased; it assumes that the local police had good reason to investigate further, but decided not to do so because of race, when it is just as possible that the initial investigation indicated no reasons to proceed further.

  71. What do you think the media reaction (and the reaction on this blog) would have been if the races had been reversed – if a 240lb black 28 year old had followed and then shot an unarmed 140lb white 17 year old, and then claimed the 17 year old had jumped him?

    Again, this demonstrates that you do not know the American “mainstream” media very well. The reaction of it in this case has been overwhelmingly in favor of Martin. If anything, in a reverse situation, I doubt we’d even hear much about it. The penchant of the MSM is to downplay stories of minority violence, or quell them.

    There’s been a fairly recent story of a white in Kansas City who was doused in gasoline and set on fire by a bunch of black kids who used racial epithets. I read yesterday — by a right-wing blogger — that there may now be aspects of this story that indicate a hoax, but nevertheless, this has been around for weeks and has been ignored by the MSM. One of my local papers, the Wilmington News Journal, has an actual policy of not indicating the race of crime suspects. Reading the “policy” is almost like reading through a bad humorous story. And then there was the violence against Asian students in Philadelphia schools last year — violence committed overwhelmingly by black students. Yet the coverage of it de-emphasized the racial aspect, and the school district officials went out of their way to do same. Thankfully, Philly.com allows comments on most of their articles, and the stories at the time had hundreds of comments all essentially laughing out loud at the media and district officials.

  72. “It has been noticed elsewhere that the gun nuts and the NRA who usually scream about arming everyone when an incident occurs have been very very quiet about the rights of black seventeen year olds to tool up and start shooting when they feel threatened…”

    Is Zimmerman accused of shooting someone upon feeling threatened?

    Although all the so-called facts in the reports cannot be assumed as necessarily true, it does seem clear that after being dropped by a punch in the nose which may have broken it, Zimmerman was, or had been, on the ground being beaten by Travon, in the moments before before he shot Trayvon.

    Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend and the news reports her own conversation with Trayvon as thus,

    “He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,” Martin’s friend said. “I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.

    Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

    “Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”

    On the other hand, Zimmerman, according to news reports supposedly recounted the confrontation thus,

    ” … the Orlando Sentinel reported neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman told police Martin decked him with a single punch, then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk.

    The Sentinel said much of Zimmerman’s account had been corroborated by witnesses, according to authorities.

    The Sentinel said Monday that authorities had provided the paper with Zimmerman’s account of events, in which he said he called police after spotting Martin, then lost sight of him and was returning to his SUV when the teen allegedly approached him from the left rear and they exchanged words.

    Zimmerman said Martin punched him in the nose, then as he fell to the ground, got on top of him and slammed his head into the sidewalk, causing Zimmerman to yell for help.

    The paper said at least one witness told police he saw Martin pounding Zimmerman. ….

    Zimmerman’s lawyer, Craig Sonner, … appeared on NBC’s “Today” show … claiming he had received a broken nose and gash on the head in the confrontation.

    According to one news report relaying the account provided by Trayvon’s girlfriend, Trayvon was “cornered” in the subdivision.

    According to what may also be conjecture here, Trayvon was chased by a man with whom he then engaged in a physical altercation, presumably without ever having any indication as to why the man was chasing him.

    Now, Zimmerman’s call to the police records Zimmerman as saying at 1:24 minutes in that the man he was observing, had begun to approach him (while he was in the car apparently). How close Trayvon actually got to Zimmerman’s car or whether he could see Zimmerman was talking on some kind of communications device to the police or to anyone else for that matter, is not clear.

    After about another half-minute of conversation with the police dispatcher, Zimmerman then reports Trayvon had begun running.

    Zimmerman then according to the tape, began to follow, was asked if he was following, said he was, was told that we don’t need you to do that. Zimmerman can then be heard saying ok, after which the heavy breathing and possible wind noises in the mic die down. At 2:40 Zimmerman reports “He ran” using the tense.

    Zimmerman makes no mention of Trayvon talking on a phone.

    Trayvon’s girlfriend’s phone call time has been logged. Zimmerman’s 911 to the police has been logged.

    Now, according to Trayvon’s girlfriend while she was on the phone with Trayvon, Zimmerman or a man, could be heard responding to to a question issued by Trayvon:

    “Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. “

    Therefore, if Trayvon’s girlfriend is telling the truth, or recalling accurately, then Trayvon spoke with Zimmerman before the time at which Trayvon was supposedly spotted on top of Zimmerman, pummeling him and banging Zimmerman’s head against the pavement.

    The construction placed on the context of this reported exchange (maybe there is a tape of it too, somewhere) is reported as follows

    ” “I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.”

    Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

    Now either she said that the man had reappeared and cornered Trayvon, or that construction was an interpolation of the reporter’s based either on an assumption of the reporter’s or an understanding of what she was directly thought to be saying or implying.

    However, the text of the reporting, again “the reporting” does not actually quote her as saying that Trayvon was cornered.

    What she is reported as indicating is that Travon first spoke saying, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and then;

    ” … the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell.”

    However, while she may well be correct that the man followed Trayvon, and cornered Trayvon, and then pushed him immediately after asking Trayvon what Trayvon was doing there, it is odd she does not recount any verbal response by Trayvon responding to either the question she heard or to supposedly being pushed by the man.

    Although there is no knowing either way from the texts of the reports so far available, the story told by the girlfriend, in the sequence she told it, could fit with with Zimmerman’s account that he was approached by Trayvon after giving up any pursuit, and then attacked.

    If the girlfriend’s conversation was recorded, that would go a long way toward clarify the exact timeline and nature of the encounter as far as the general public is concerned. And could either rebut, or possibly reinforce, Zimmerman’s account of the events.

    As it is, what the exact circumstances were in the seconds before the last encounter, seems be somewhat ambiguous.

    In any event, if Trayvon’s girlfriend’s version of events (as reported) is true, then it appears that Trayvon had at least some idea of what the man who had been looking at him earlier, was interested in knowing.

    Whether Zimmerman was in face to face pursuit at that point, or whether he had abandoned it and was subsequently confronted by an offended and now pursuing Trayvon, I could not say on the basis of what I have thus far seen.

    If police release the exact location of the shooting in relation to Zimmerman’s car, that may also help.

    Perhaps someone already has that information.

  73. I see some verbal corrections that need to be made here and there: a word “past” as in tense, missing, an infinitive needed in place of what’s there … but I’ll leave it for now.

  74. “Again, this demonstrates that you do not know the American “mainstream” media very well. The reaction of it in this case has been overwhelmingly in favor of Martin. If anything, in a reverse situation, I doubt we’d even hear much about it. ”

    In the reverse situation, Koolo, the police would have arrested the black 240 guy who just shot a white kid. THAT is why it is getting so much attention.

    “There’s been a fairly recent story of a white in Kansas City who was doused in gasoline and set on fire by a bunch of black kids who used racial epithets.”

    And were they arrested or set free after claiming he jumped them?

  75. “The lovely Miss Nova, whose comment was initially stuck in moderation but who has been very much sticking to the topic lately,”

    Oh, when the fact that Mr Hitchcock routinely lies or [Characterization deleted; please refer to Comments & Conduct Policy. -- Editor], I’ll bring them up again.

    Or, for that matter, your own role in sanctioning and supporting such actions while hiding behind your censorship powers.

    But I think we’ve clearly established what the two of you are by now.

    [Released from moderation. And here I had such high hopes that Miss Nova would try to stay on the topics at hand. :( -- Editor]

  76. In the reverse situation, Koolo, the police would have arrested the black 240 guy who just shot a white kid. THAT is why it is getting so much attention.

    That might be true, and it might not. But you asked about the media reaction, not the police reaction.

    And were they arrested or set free after claiming he jumped them?

    They’re still at large, if the story is accurate. And again, I was using this as an example of the media reaction, which, again, is actually what you asked about.

  77. “Oh, when the fact that Mr Hitchcock routinely lies or [Characterization deleted; please refer to Comments & Conduct Policy. -- Editor],”

    Incorrect – stating that Mr Hitchcock [Characterization deleted; please refer to Comments & Conduct Policy. -- Editor]

    Characterizations are the sort of things you let your fellow right wingers get away with when they start calling people “libtards” and the like.

    It’s the difference between showing (with actual citations) that your actions in using your editorial powers are hypocritical and actually stating that you are a hypocrite.

  78. “That might be true, and it might not. But you asked about the media reaction, not the police reaction.”

    Really? So the words “Would the police have arrested him?” are not about the police reaction?

    But perhaps you’re right. I’m AM so terribly sorry. I thought my meaning was obvious, but I can see I have to be a little more clearer lest you fail for some reason to grasp the actual reason why people are upset and thus fail to deal with it once again.

    In that case, pray tell, what do you think the media reaction (and the reaction on this blog) would have been if the races had been reversed when the police chose not to investigate – if a 240lb black 28 year old had followed and then shot an unarmed 140lb white 17 year old, and then claimed the 17 year old had jumped him – and the local police chose not to arrest him or investigate further? Would right wing blogs such as Riehl’s View be attempting to argue he was innocent? Would the right wingers on this blog be making the same arguments?

  79. “Incorrect – stating that Mr Hitchcock [Characterization deleted; please refer to Comments & Conduct Policy. -- Editor]”

    You are incorrect – you chopped out my point that I did not make a characterization.

    Strange how, in your zeal to prevent Mr Hitchock’s actions from being pointed out for what they are, you also hide demonstrations that you are incorrect in your own justifications.

  80. I see Perry has had the good sense to take a step back from advocacy on this as the stories continue to develop.

    But let’s suppose, just for the sake of argument, that George Zimmerman never actually caught up with Trayvon on his own.

    What would it mean to those who have been judging this as a murder, if it were somehow – splitting the differences – demonstrated that,

    1 Zimmerman never actually caught up with Trayvon, on his own.

    2, Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle when he was in fact confronted by Trayvon

    3, That Trayvon’s girlfriend is telling the truth when she says that she first heard Trayvon asking why Zimmerman was, or had been following him, and that she heard the man reply with a question asking Trayvon why he was there.

    4, That there was no conversation after that, and that Zimmerman, after being pummeled, his head bashed against the pavement, and heard and seen by witnesses crying for help while being beaten, then pulled his gun and shot up into Trayvon’s chest at what the police say was point blank range.

    What is Zimmerman’s guilt at that point?

    Is this scenario reasonable? Well,

    Zimmerman after all is only 5’9″ tall, well over 200 lbs, and 28 year old, while Trayvon is variously reported as a 6’1″ or 6’3″ tall athlete and 150 lbs.

    One might wonder, “How could Zimmerman have “cornered” (as the news report put it) Trayvon?”

    It doesn’t mean that Zimmerman didn’t; or didn’t manage to catch Trayvon in a cul de sac. I don’t know.

    And the reporting I have seen shows no diagrams … oddly enough.

    But suppose, just for the sake of argument that what the police dispatcher heard and we have all heard recorded, is true: That Zimmerman was in his car and that Trayvon approached it for say 40 seconds during which he was eying Zimmerman while Zimmerman talked to the dispatcher.

    Suppose further that the 911 call made by Zimmerman is correctly interpreted if we understand it as revealing a short and portly, to say the least, Zimmerman acceding to the dispatcher’s comment that ‘we don’t need you to do that’ (approx), after Zimmerman began following the running Trayvon.

    According to the Orlando Sentinel, there are about 60 seconds unaccounted for. During that time, how might Zimmerman, having turned back at police instructions, or at least paused if we take the lack of panting as evidence, then have gone on to corner and shoot Trayvon?

    It’s possible I suppose. And those who think it is a fact, may cite Trayvon’s girlfriend’s account of her recollection of her phone conversation with Trayvon as supporting that.

    Someone, she for example, might in fact have a phone recording of Trayvon saying “He’s got me cornered”. But from what I have read, she didn’t even, precisely, say that. The news report did.

    What she described was the reappearance of “the man” into her phone conversation with Trayvon, and Trayvon asking, or demanding of the man, as to why he was being followed.

    Says Trayvon, according to her recollected account:

    ” ‘What, are you following me for, …’ “

    And then she claims to have heard,


    ‘… and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’”

    Then she reports what she thinks she heard,

    ” Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, … “

    And she then informs us as to her interpretation regarding what she thought she heard,

    ” … and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. ”

    She might be right.

    If she has a recording of her conversation, I am sure that there are many who would be interested in the assistance it could provide is clarifying exactly what transpired.

    As it is, the account she gave seems largely irreconcilable with the account Zimmerman is now reported as having given:

    One-minute gap

    On Feb. 26, when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, he called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

    Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

    There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they’re not sure what happened.

    Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, “Well, you do now” or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police. “

    Orlando Sentinel

    Well, I said largely irreconcilable. Not exactly. From a strictly logical point of view what is irreconcilable, in terms of direct contradictions, are her interpretations of what she claims to have heard.

    Some of the rest could be viewed as supplemental, or at least non-contradictory.

    But then, I was not there. However, unlike Al Sharpton, I know it.

  81. Someone with the same initials as Anna Nova wrote:

    In that case, pray tell, what do you think the media reaction (and the reaction on this blog) would have been if the races had been reversed when the police chose not to investigate – if a 240lb black 28 year old had followed and then shot an unarmed 140lb white 17 year old, and then claimed the 17 year old had jumped him – and the local police chose not to arrest him or investigate further? Would right wing blogs such as Riehl’s View be attempting to argue he was innocent? Would the right wingers on this blog be making the same arguments?

    Well, I doubt that we’d have put a $10,000 bounty on his head. Of course, in a situation like you described, we’d probably never heard about it in the first place; the media would keep such a thing carefully under wraps.

    I can’t speak for every conservative site, but at least on this one, the most that is being said by conservatives is that there has been contradictory evidence, and that Mr Zimmerman may be innocent of any crime. It really hasn’t been the conservatives here who have been jumping to conclusions.

  82. “Actually, not all of the left are saying, “investigate and prosecute,” not “hang him.””

    Really?

    Well, let’s see what the actual left says about the New Black Panthers, shall we?

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

    —-
    The New Black Panther Party (NBPP) is neither new nor composed of Black Panthers. The New Black Panthers were founded in 1989 by Malik Zulu Shabazz. They are a fringe militant black supremacist organization and listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[1] They have also been condemned by the Anti-Defamation League and the NAACP.[2][3] They promote a virulent brand of anti-white and anti-Semitic racism and have been involved in a number of violent incidents. The Huey Newton Foundation issued a statement that “There is no New Black Panther Party.”[4] Many of its members are, in fact, former members of the Nation of Islam.

    And yet you conflate them with anyone not as reactionary as you. Interesting.

    Once again you demonstrate what you really are.

  83. The questions remain:

    * Why hasn’t Zimmerman been arrested.

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman questioned intensely?

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman’s blood tested?

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman charged with a crime?

    * Why isn’t DNW raising these questions?

    The above does not constitute “jumping to conclusions” Mr Editor.

    What it does constitute is gross police incompetence. Where is the acknowledgement of this articulated by Conservatives on this blog specifically, or by Conservatives in general. Have I missed something here?

    The conclusion is crystal clear — There continues to be a racist streak in America, most evident among Conservatives, consistent with their blanket hatred for our black President.

    Michele Alexander in her book The New Jim Crow, makes a compelling case for lingering racism in America. And guess what, our Editor has closed his eyes to even consider this possibility, not surprisingly!

  84. From today’s Daily Caller:

    Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”

    “His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.

    The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton “race hustlers” and said they are “acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.”

  85. Wagonwheel says:
    March 27, 2012 at 07:23

    The questions remain:

    * Why hasn’t Zimmerman been arrested.

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman questioned intensely?

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman’s blood tested?

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman charged with a crime?

    * Why isn’t DNW raising these questions?”

    “Why isn’t DNW raising these questions?”

    Because I thought I would take a step back and look at the available evidence as it accrued, rather than start flailing and shouting about circumstances that were unclear.

  86. ““His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.”

    His “family” has reportedly already trademarked his name.

  87. Trayvon’s Mother Tries to Trademark Protest Phrases

    By Alex Klein

    EATONVILLE, FL – MARCH 26: Rev. Al Sharpton (C) and Sybrina Fulton (LOWER R), mother of slain teenager Trayvon Martin, attend a community forum on the killing of Trayvon Martin at Macedonia Baptist Church on March 26, 2012 in Eatonville, Florida. A march and rally are planned for later this afternoon in Sanford which will hold a town hall meeting on the incident at 5:00 p.m. (Photo by Mario Tama/Getty Images)

    In the wake of the outcry over his killing, “Trayvon Martin” merchandise has been selling through the roof: T-shirts, buttons, pins, CDs, DVDs, and more. Now Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Martin, has filed papers to trademark two phrases based on her sons name: “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon.”

    The parents are due to appear at a special Capitol Hill forum today, hosted by several Democrats on the House judiciary committee. The pols are expected to call for a repeal of Florida’s controversial “Stand Your Ground” gun amnesty law, which some believe contributed to Trayvon’s killing. According to the Hill, no Republicans are involved in the afternoon’s forum.

    But it’s not just politicians who see an opportunity amid the national firestorm.

    The “Trayvon” branding spree has swept across hundreds of online merchandise sites. Yesterday, Florida rapper Plies debuted a tribute song, “We Are Trayvon Martin,” and began selling T-shirts embossed with George Zimmerman’s face and the words “P*SSY ASS CRACKER.”

    ” MARCH 26–The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show.

    Sybrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton, 46, is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.

    The March 21 USPTO applications, each of which cost $325, were filed by an Orlando, Florida law firm representing Fulton, whose first name is spelled “Sabrina” in the trademark records.

    Martin, 17, was shot to death last month during a confrontation with George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain. …”

    “Trayvon Martin is already a household name and now the mother of the slain teenager wants to trademark it. Sybrina Fulton filed applications last week with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office that would trademark two slogans associated with the 17-year-old: “I Am Trayvon,” and “Justice for Trayvon.” The papers filed show that the mother wants the trademarks so the phrases can be used on “digital materials,” meaning CDs and DVDs. An attorney representing Fulton tells the AP that the trademarks will be used on “projects that will assist other families who experience similar tragedies” and that there’s no profit motive.

    Cindy Sheehan must be selling how-to books.

    [released from moderation -- JH]

  88. As my comment linking to The Smoking Gun and other sources, is in moderation, I should point out the the papers have been filed, and apparently the fees paid. Whether there is a process that might result in her trademark application being denied remains to be seen.

    Keep in mind that one article’s reference to a …

    “… “Trayvon” branding spree [which] has swept across hundreds of online merchandise sites. “

    And which states that

    “Yesterday, Florida rapper Plies debuted a tribute song, “We Are Trayvon Martin,” and began selling T-shirts embossed with George Zimmerman’s face and the words “P*SSY ASS CRACKER.”

    … provides no evidence that the mother of Trayvon was receiving any profits from, nor in any way involved in that particular merchandising effort.

    Her motive, she has stipulated, is purely altruistic.

  89. Wagonwheel says:
    March 27, 2012 at 07:23

    The questions remain:

    * Why hasn’t Zimmerman been arrested.

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman questioned intensely?

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman’s blood tested?

    * Why wasn’t Zimmerman charged with a crime?

    * Why isn’t DNW raising these questions?

    The above does not constitute “jumping to conclusions” Mr Editor.”

    Perry, since you claim not to be jumping to conclusions, perhaps you could provide the legal grounds for your points of rhetorical outrage rather than a mere display of out of control emotion?

    In fact why have you not done so already?

    For example, you ask, “Why hasn’t Zimmerman been arrested.”

    On what charge specifically, and upon what items of evidence substantiating the charge?

    You also ask: “Why wasn’t Zimmerman charged with a crime?”.

    What crime, and based on what specific evidence that that particular crime has occurred?

    You are aware that homicide is not always a crime?

  90. DNW: It’s obvious that SINP and Anna, like way too many lefties in situations like this, have already made up their minds. They’d make excellent MSNBC personalities.

    I still maintain, based on the current evidence, that Zimmerman’s actions led to the confrontation … a confrontation that easily could have been avoided. This view may change, of course, as more info comes forward. Always keep in mind the Duke lacrosse team, Tawana Brawley …

Comments are closed.